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Discussion - MOCPages rating system
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 Group moderator 
I was here at home, thinking and talking to myself, when I came to a question that has been bugging me for some time: The site's rating system. One or two of you may be too new for it, but when I first entered here, there was no "I like it" thing. The person could actually see what was the score you gave it, and that was it. You didn't know how many smileys your creations had, only how many comments, and what those comments say about your MOC. And you know what? I think it was better that way.

Let me explain: This "I like it" thing, even if not intended to, kinda forces you to give either a four or a five to creation. If you don't, the person doesn't get that so wanted smiley face, and you sound like you didn't like it.

This created some kind of obsession by the smiley. Your popularity and quality as a MOCer is not judged by your creations, but by how many happy Lego faces you have on a particular MOC. You could easily ask your friends to comment and vote on it, and Bingo! 50 happy faces for you! If your friends also MOC, even better! Now you can both vote on each other, and so on...

It disencourages the true, constructive critcism. I see less and lesser comments actually helping with something. Most just say: "Awesome", or "great, check out my stuff". How much construcive criticism you see round here? How many comments saying what is good and, mostly, what could be better about a creation? How many say like this:

"This is a great MOC. I think you should try a little more original torso build, and that head didn't work wuite well. Apart from that, I tink the color scheme is very well done, and the proportions are really neat. keep it up!"
Apart from the "kep it up!" thing, most doesn't looks like that at all.

I'm not saying you should do entire books every time you comment on something, but if you're gonna comment, at least do a proper one. And make sure of what the creation truly deserves.
I mean it, just look at al the MOcs you compulsively comment every day: How many truly deserve that 4 or 5? Are they really "very good" or "excellent"? I don' think so... If yes, them every single Toa MOC is "awesome". Just put a crazy armor coming out even of its butt, and you got it!

Now , I'm not trying to attack nor offend anyone, even less trying to get attention or something. If I wanted more attention, I would do a Toa like I described. And no, I'm not saying you shouldn't comment, neither you shouldn't do Toa MOCs. I myself do those things I described a lot, like giving more to the MOc than it deserved. I'm just being sincere here and spilling it out.

So, ending with a completely different line of tough than the one I started, I say before trying to change things or whatever, we should first think more about it and what has happened to the system here. That's why I'm opening this tread, to discuss it. Wat do you think of it? Do you agree or disagree? Say your arguments, spill it out, talk, think... Go ahead...


So, I may have talked a bit too much, but I hope you read this, and lets do a civilized discussion. I know there is a contest going on and stuff, but lets take us a few minutes at this subject and try to make a healthy discussion here.

That's all folks! keep MOCing!
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| May 24, 2011, 10:03 pm
 Group moderator 
I agree with you on many points.
I myself am trying at times to find an excellent design for a Bionicle Mech suit and I got the comment "What a beast!" Sure I replied to that warmly but I still wished the person had actually made a comment about the building techniques, structure or perhaps even improvements or ideas for joint strengthening.

That's why I never make a comment unless I can always tell them what I found interesting or something other than "awesome moc"

As with the rating system, I would say get rid of it. But then the exact same problem would occur with people getting more single word comments or ect.

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| May 24, 2011, 10:47 pm
You know, now that I think about it, your right. I usually just go to the home page. click on the one I like, and give it 5. I think that really discourages people. I get judged a lot for not having a lot of smiley faces. What really annoys me is the advertising. I try very hard to get noticed, but I don't do it that way. I let people drift to my page, and I have to be more honest, it feels so much better when a person (like Keith :) ) randomly finds me and leaves a comment or 2 saying this is great and how I can improve it ( then adds me as a favorite *squeal*). I haven't been on Mocpages long, so I think that also contributes too.
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| May 24, 2011, 11:01 pm
You've made some good points there.
While I always try to leave more elaborate comments, a lot of the comments I see are three words or less, especially from certain people (whose names shall not be mentioned). I've seen more "check out this MOC"-comments too lately. And a few of my MOCs actually have comments on them that are just a smiley, like :D or :O
And yeah, the smileys are kinda weird. My better MOCs have less 'likes' than a lot of my other ones, for whatever reason. Also, with this rating system, you can just spam your rating (especially if you're not registered) or post multiple rated comments on every MOC as you please.
Although I don't mind a rating system, the current one just doesn't seem quite right to me. Maybe if they changed it to 1-10 instead of 1-5 or something. Not to mention, the 'likes-count' isn't accurate anyway, since it frequently miscounts by 1 or more.
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| May 24, 2011, 11:15 pm
 Group moderator 
Quoting Doc. Jared McAwesome
You know, now that I think about it, your right. I usually just go to the home page. click on the one I like, and give it 5. I think that really discourages people. I get judged a lot for not having a lot of smiley faces. What really annoys me is the advertising. I try very hard to get noticed, but I don't do it that way. I let people drift to my page, and I have to be more honest, it feels so much better when a person (like Keith :) ) randomly finds me and leaves a comment or 2 saying this is great and how I can improve it ( then adds me as a favorite *squeal*). I haven't been on Mocpages long, so I think that also contributes too.


I feel just like you. I've tried all those tchniques to get noticed people say, like commenting in everything and stuff. didn't work, but you know what? I don't think it should work anyway. I agree with you, I like to let people drift to my page, really linking the thing, not commenting on me because I'm liked by the popular folks or anything.I think it has some more magic in it, you know. It seems that today, people comment bureaucratically, just to get attention, not atracted by the MOc itself, but by the person who made it. Not generalizing, but most people are this way.

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| May 24, 2011, 11:17 pm
 Group admin 
In most cases, how I rate many MOCs is 4, 5 or nothing. That's how I end up getting around it, since no one can acually tell whether they've given 1, 2 or 3. I generally give constructive critism for certain creations, but usually it's just the typical praise, noting particular details etc. Given this, it essentially makes the whole rating system redundant anyway, which you have pointed out.

One thing they could do, which I think someone has mentioned, is assign descriptors to each rating, so that 0 is obviously indifferent, 1 kinda like, 2 it's ok, 3 liking it, 4 love it, 5 OMG I want ur babies etc... This could have a possibility for a negative scale, though I think the 0 will suffice with added critism in the comment on how it could be improved.
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| May 25, 2011, 12:37 am
 Group admin 
Just an comment to comments already made. I think changing it to 0-10 wouldn't change anything really. If however these numbers were clearly displayed, then one could get a better gauge of people's ratings of their MOC.
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| May 25, 2011, 2:39 am
 Group moderator 
It's a 5 or nothing on my part. With the "I like it" system, my head kind of numbs out. Whereas I don't dare to give less than a 5 nor comment without rating too often, I find it hard to think of a proper rate and criticism on a moc I'm looking at. I mostly comment if there's not much to critisize, where I sound just like a fanboy >_> or to give some advice and help. Between these I rarely am able to comment.

Despite this, I like to see a some kind of number to see the popularity of my mocs. The original 0-5 rates was nice, but to fill my needs, I'd support the 0-10 scale, where the difference is more notable on the average rating. Average rating would go nicely with a number with 2 decimals.

On my creations I rarely see any constructive criticism. It's fairly discouraging and makes myself unavailable to advance with building and taking photos in a proper pace. Getting any constructive criticism seems to be a higher goal rather than the "I like it" number to those with longer experience in mocing.

I'd aswell support the private messaging. It would bring mocers more together and share thoughts and ideas. The group system has been a good start, but doesn't give much space for 1 on 1 conversations, which I think have more meaning regarding friendships and getting to know people better. We still appear fairly distant.
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| May 25, 2011, 5:16 pm
 Group moderator 
I say keep the number of likes sicne some people would complain fi they were taken away. But that it would jsut mean someone rated your creation.
Rating could actually be an updateing average of 1 of 10s that people select as number of smiles.
On your creation would be number of votes on your creation along with the average of the votes.
Also about the lack of a PM system. I was thouroughly surpized to be honest since you do get messages about club invites and so forth.
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| May 25, 2011, 9:59 pm
 Group moderator 
http://www.mocpages.com/moc.php/270952

Heh let's use this as a good example of the quality of comments and how they differ.
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| May 26, 2011, 5:50 pm
Ever since I joined MOCpages, I vowed to keep my comments more than a sentence, comments that just say, "Awesome" or "Cool" or even the latest one ":D" Are annoying!

I'm not always a fan of criticism, unless I need it or they bring up a good point. Still comments need to be long, You need to describe what's good, and what isn't without being too mean! Anyway, I'm pretty much just saying what everyone else has said :P So I'll say something else

The rating system:
I think it should change to, one rate per person, this would eliminate spam, something no one likes! I also think we should give a rating instead of the "I like it" Then on the main "I like it" thing, it should give the average likes (Like '4/5 average') and then give it the total likes. (Like this creation has '56 "likes it's"'

This is a great topic Johann! Thanks for bringing it up ;)
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| May 30, 2011, 6:54 am
Quoting Ben Cossy
Ever since I joined MOCpages, I vowed to keep my comments more than a sentence, comments that just say, "Awesome" or "Cool" or even the latest one ":D" Are annoying!

I'm not always a fan of criticism, unless I need it or they bring up a good point. Still comments need to be long, You need to describe what's good, and what isn't without being too mean! Anyway, I'm pretty much just saying what everyone else has said :P So I'll say something else

The rating system:
I think it should change to, one rate per person, this would eliminate spam, something no one likes! I also think we should give a rating instead of the "I like it" Then on the main "I like it" thing, it should give the average likes (Like '4/5 average') and then give it the total likes. (Like this creation has '56 "likes it's"'

This is a great topic Johann! Thanks for bringing it up ;)
Ben you have a good point. I don't like it either when people say "Nice" or "Cool" on my creations I want something I could improve on. (Even though I have done it too). I like your idea for the rating system too.

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| May 30, 2011, 6:57 am
Thanks! I'm glad you think so! Maybe we should recommend this to Sean?
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| May 30, 2011, 7:01 am
Quoting Ben Cossy
Thanks! I'm glad you think so! Maybe we should recommend this to Sean?
I definitely think we should.

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| May 30, 2011, 7:01 am
This might be a bit picky, but I really hate the system when it comes to things like non-LEGO related things. I really get annoyed when people just take random pictures of their workspace and get like 20 likes, and I'll post some sort of mech or something, and get maybe 2 likes a day. Not only that, but it's unfair to other mocers who want to be on the homepage, but can't because they're being beaten out by pictures of random workspaces. I don't have a problem if you do a quick pic or 2 about it in a moc, but as a creation on it's own....
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| May 31, 2011, 9:02 am
 Group moderator 
When I first entred this site, there was an actual average system in the mOCs, with a row of smileys colored acccondingly to the average of the page, just like youtube used to have. I don't know why they dropped it, it's much more fair, in my opinion.
And yeah, about the workspace pages, its interesting, but I don't think they shold be judged as a MOc either, they're more a curosity, not a creation. The same goes for those sign up posts, like for a comic or contest, wich sometimes get a lots of likes, and most times from the same people, who start a conversation there and don't stop to adding likes. Really, why not make a group for that.
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| May 31, 2011, 10:49 am
I completely agree with all of these points. I have also noticed that the majority of "i like it'"s people are receiving are from a conversation on the MOC. I really wish that people would not rate it in their 2nd, 3rd, and other comments, or that Sean would make it impossible to rate more than once. I am relatively new so I had not heard of this old average rating system. It would be cool if they brought that back, but I don't think that a lot of people would like it.
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| May 31, 2011, 8:05 pm
 Group moderator 
Quoting Nathan Davis
I completely agree with all of these points. I have also noticed that the majority of "i like it'"s people are receiving are from a conversation on the MOC. I really wish that people would not rate it in their 2nd, 3rd, and other comments, or that Sean would make it impossible to rate more than once. I am relatively new so I had not heard of this old average rating system. It would be cool if they brought that back, but I don't think that a lot of people would like it.

Yeah, maybe those people with 230 million commentaries on a 30-piece MOc wouldn't like it at all...

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| May 31, 2011, 9:22 pm
I also agree with you fine gentleman about the multiple "likes" from the same user. True, there are conversations in them, but there are also spammers. Granted, there is the lag time where a comment posts twice sometimes, but the same comment 100+ times (with all the likes) is the most annoying, in my opinion of course.
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| May 31, 2011, 9:31 pm
 Group moderator 
Quoting Clockwork Tempest
I also agree with you fine gentleman about the multiple "likes" from the same user. True, there are conversations in them, but there are also spammers. Granted, there is the lag time where a comment posts twice sometimes, but the same comment 100+ times (with all the likes) is the most annoying, in my opinion of course.

Yeah, it annoys everyone. Happenned to Toa Phosphorus recently, some guy spammed it to 400+ likes. Didn't fixed it yet...

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| May 31, 2011, 9:39 pm
Those are some very true points you made, and I'm guilty of leaving 'short' comments. :( I'll try to leave more helpful comments now. ;)
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| May 31, 2011, 9:48 pm
Quoting Johann Dakitsch
Yeah, it annoys everyone. Happenned to Toa Phosphorus recently, some guy spammed it to 400+ likes. Didn't fixed it yet...


It was ninja poop. He also spammed Gringat to 200 and something. He said he was 'sorry' after that though and that 'he thought this MOC deserved more likes'. :/
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| May 31, 2011, 9:53 pm
Totally agree with everyone else! I have said this before, but haven't done anything about it yet, should one of us tell Sean to change it? Then again, he probably is so :P
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| June 1, 2011, 7:30 pm
 Group moderator 
Quoting Legofreak2444 ~

It was ninja poop. He also spammed Gringat to 200 and something. He said he was 'sorry' after that though and that 'he thought this MOC deserved more likes'. :/

Ahh, the fanboy movement. I think I was once like that as a little kid, doing so a time or two. (Not here though) Those tend to happen by little kids sometimes, and therefore I have to wonder why do they have users... As far as I know there's an age limit for creating an user here. This is pretty much one more reason to keep it that way... Though I've been too long on mocpages to remember anything about that.
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| June 3, 2011, 9:11 am
 Group admin 
Quoting Dacheronar Grahen
Ahh, the fanboy movement. I think I was once like that as a little kid, doing so a time or two. (Not here though) Those tend to happen by little kids sometimes, and therefore I have to wonder why do they have users... As far as I know there's an age limit for creating an user here. This is pretty much one more reason to keep it that way... Though I've been too long on mocpages to remember anything about that.

Wish I had some fanboys lol That aside, there's not a lot one can do to control that side of things. Fanatics will always be fanatics. From a technical standpoint, it could be remedied by IP/Account detection so that you can't vote more than once on a MOC. Only method I can think of to get around that is the use of proxies etc. For the most part, fans can take a hint when the hero gets annoyed, but you get the odd repeat offender...
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| June 3, 2011, 10:12 am
 Group moderator 
Quoting Kai Heffernan
Here's a good example of a moc conversation: http://www.mocpages.com/moc.php/272618

Hehhehehe... This exemplifies most of the MOC conversations around here.
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| June 5, 2011, 6:41 pm
That's why I rarely even comment ;) Let alone even rate something. It's mainly cause of how I used to the way you would comment on BZP, if it doesn't offer any real critisism then it's treated as spam, and thus removed. So yeah I don't really comment cause of how it works over here :/
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| June 24, 2011, 12:35 pm
Hate to say it but I have to agree with my fellow BZPer above me, the commenting system on BZPower is many times more satisfactory. That does not, however, mean that I don't do reviews on this site. All it means is that it tends to be much more rewarding to post MoCs on BZPower. Part of that is due to the fact that the staff does indeed remove comments like "Awesome!". Of course this does come with the disadvantage of people not commenting a lot because (and I hate to say it) it just takes to much time.

On another note I agree that the rating system just needs to be removed completely. It's just a meaningless score that doesn't say anything about the MoC in question. The next 20 MoCs I see on this site I could rate 5 just becuase I can.

That's why groups like this one (and BZPower too) could really benefit from a sort of reviewer's guild. It would work like this,

1: A moderator or Admin opens up a topic with a list and tells anyone who is willing to write quality reviews can join.

2: The people who sign up are now considered a member of the Reviewers Guild.

3: Then any person on MoCpages can come to this guild and request a review and the MoC they want reviewed.

4: A reviewer takes the job and goes and gives his/her best review they can on the chosen MoC.

5: The person who asked for the review is now asked to re-pay the guild member with a quality review on one of the guild member's MoCs.

Now I'm sure this system raises some questions such as: How do you inforce that everyone will do as there supposed too?

The answer: You don't. You hope that most people will honor the agreement and all goes well. And if it doesn't so what? You ether ask and don't get a response or you just took ten minutes to give a quality review.

Now this is only one small way of increasing the quality of reviews around the site. Another way would to just make sure you list some of the good and bad things about the MoC and what makes them ether good/bad. Another way would to make sure that if you rate a MoC take the time to leave a comment about why you rated the MoC what you did and did not like about it.

The point is that, this site gives all the necessary tools to make reviews rewarding and all we have to do is take a little time to make them so.

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| July 20, 2011, 12:59 am
Quoting Johann Dakitsch
I was here at home, thinking and talking to myself, when I came to a question that has been bugging me for some time: The site's rating system. One or two of you may be too new for it, but when I first entered here, there was no "I like it" thing. The person could actually see what was the score you gave it, and that was it. You didn't know how many smileys your creations had, only how many comments, and what those comments say about your MOC. And you know what? I think it was better that way.

Let me explain: This "I like it" thing, even if not intended to, kinda forces you to give either a four or a five to creation. If you don't, the person doesn't get that so wanted smiley face, and you sound like you didn't like it.

This created some kind of obsession by the smiley. Your popularity and quality as a MOCer is not judged by your creations, but by how many happy Lego faces you have on a particular MOC. You could easily ask your friends to comment and vote on it, and Bingo! 50 happy faces for you! If your friends also MOC, even better! Now you can both vote on each other, and so on...

It disencourages the true, constructive critcism. I see less and lesser comments actually helping with something. Most just say: "Awesome", or "great, check out my stuff". How much construcive criticism you see round here? How many comments saying what is good and, mostly, what could be better about a creation? How many say like this:

"This is a great MOC. I think you should try a little more original torso build, and that head didn't work wuite well. Apart from that, I tink the color scheme is very well done, and the proportions are really neat. keep it up!"
Apart from the "kep it up!" thing, most doesn't looks like that at all.

I'm not saying you should do entire books every time you comment on something, but if you're gonna comment, at least do a proper one. And make sure of what the creation truly deserves.
I mean it, just look at al the MOcs you compulsively comment every day: How many truly deserve that 4 or 5? Are they really "very good" or "excellent"? I don' think so... If yes, them every single Toa MOC is "awesome". Just put a crazy armor coming out even of its butt, and you got it!

Now , I'm not trying to attack nor offend anyone, even less trying to get attention or something. If I wanted more attention, I would do a Toa like I described. And no, I'm not saying you shouldn't comment, neither you shouldn't do Toa MOCs. I myself do those things I described a lot, like giving more to the MOc than it deserved. I'm just being sincere here and spilling it out.

So, ending with a completely different line of tough than the one I started, I say before trying to change things or whatever, we should first think more about it and what has happened to the system here. That's why I'm opening this tread, to discuss it. Wat do you think of it? Do you agree or disagree? Say your arguments, spill it out, talk, think... Go ahead...


So, I may have talked a bit too much, but I hope you read this, and lets do a civilized discussion. I know there is a contest going on and stuff, but lets take us a few minutes at this subject and try to make a healthy discussion here.

That's all folks! keep MOCing!

So true so true
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| August 16, 2011, 5:35 pm
I completely agree. I used to go crazy over getting likes then when i finally started to get tons of like suddenly i dropped of the face of the earth or something and now i get like 30 instead of getting the 40 50 or 60 that i did. Sometime I i'm angry about a moc that i feel really doesn't deserve so many like and other times i'm also angry that a fantastic moc has like 3. We should put up a petition to remove the I Like It system!
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| September 8, 2011, 11:26 pm
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