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repackaged relgion, an argument between FATHER KHAL AND COMMANDER RUSTY
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 Group moderator 
yeah...alright no one else comment unless u have something relevant to ADD to the argument
Permalink
| August 16, 2009, 1:09 pm
Quoting Father Khal
yeah...alright no one else comment unless u have something relevant to ADD to the argument

Well, we can say that Christianity is the same thing as many other religions that came and gone. Basically, most religions have in the hearth of the belief the existance of a superior, all-powerfull entity. But what makes it stand out of others is the rest of the history: the great flood, the ways that the tested men acted. Christianity tries to teach people to live together, with full respect for the next person. Also, there are many things that happen which we cannot explain (sadly, the scientists think they can explain everything). Religion is vital so that people can have guidance. People need to have a central and important objective in their lives so that they can enjoy those the most.
Permalink
| August 16, 2009, 1:31 pm
 Group moderator 
Quoting James Theodore
Well, we can say that Christianity is the same thing as many other religions that came and gone. Basically, most religions have in the hearth of the belief the existance of a superior, all-powerfull entity. But what makes it stand out of others is the rest of the history: the great flood, the ways that the tested men acted. Christianity tries to teach people to live together, with full respect for the next person. Also, there are many things that happen which we cannot explain (sadly, the scientists think they can explain everything). Religion is vital so that people can have guidance. People need to have a central and important objective in their lives so that they can enjoy those the most.

i was talking more in the terms of transmutation...when conquered religions rituals r adopted by the conqourer to allow conversion to be easier

Permalink
| August 16, 2009, 1:50 pm
Quoting Father Khal
i was talking more in the terms of transmutation...when conquered religions rituals r adopted by the conqourer to allow conversion to be easier

Yes, you are right. Generally, the conqueror doesn't have any intention to become friendly with the conquered. So they adopt their religion (slightly I believe) in order to keep them pleased and quiet...
Permalink
| August 16, 2009, 1:53 pm
 Group moderator 
Quoting James Theodore
Yes, you are right. Generally, the conqueror doesn't have any intention to become friendly with the conquered. So they adopt their religion (slightly I believe) in order to keep them pleased and quiet...

well christianity being the largest religion has the most

1.christmas(date(25 december)) is actually the date for the pagan holiday sol invictus(conquered sun)

2.halos are sun worship symbols

3."god making" from the rite of euhemerus

4."god eating" or communion borrowed from the aztecs

5.a young man dying for our sins appears in the earliest tradition of the quetzalcoatl
and yes even our image of god is borrowed(the most feared and greatest god of all history)

u might say:an old man with a white beard? how absurd

to which i would reply: look at zeus
Permalink
| August 16, 2009, 2:00 pm
 Group admin 
Quoting Father Khal
well christianity being the largest religion has the most

1.christmas(date(25 december)) is actually the date for the pagan holiday sol invictus(conquered sun)

2.halos are sun worship symbols

3."god making" from the rite of euhemerus

4."god eating" or communion borrowed from the aztecs

5.a young man dying for our sins appears in the earliest tradition of the quetzalcoatl
and yes even our image of god is borrowed(the most feared and greatest god of all history)

u might say:an old man with a white beard? how absurd

to which i would reply: look at zeus


Rebuttal:

1. Christmas is held on December 25th because the Roman Catholic Church wanted to abolish a pagan holiday held on that day(the one you mentioned) so that the people would celebrate their Savior's birth instead of some fake god.

2. Halos were used only in church art. The misconceptions of artists have nothing to do with Christianity.

3. I fail to see where this applies.

4. The Lord's Supper was not borrowed from the Aztecs because the Roman world had no idea that the Aztecs existed.

5. Once again, the Aztecs had an inkling of the truth, but Christianity could not have stolen this beleif because the Romans had no contact with South America.

6. Christianity is not a religion, it is a relationship with God.
Permalink
| August 16, 2009, 4:17 pm
 Group moderator 
Quoting Commander Rusty

Rebuttal:

1. Christmas is held on December 25th because the Roman Catholic Church wanted to abolish a pagan holiday held on that day(the one you mentioned) so that the people would celebrate their Savior's birth instead of some fake god.

2. Halos were used only in church art. The misconceptions of artists have nothing to do with Christianity.

3. I fail to see where this applies.

4. The Lord's Supper was not borrowed from the Aztecs because the Roman world had no idea that the Aztecs existed.

5. Once again, the Aztecs had an inkling of the truth, but Christianity could not have stolen this beleif because the Romans had no contact with South America.

6. Christianity is not a religion, it is a relationship with God.

1. it wasnt that cause sol invictus was simply a ceremony to celebrate longer days again

2.ok but why in christmas plays do we use em on every single angel/saint?

3. cannonization

4.this wasnt introduced UNTIL we met the aztecs and converted some(holy roman empire(catholic) not roman)

5.same point

6.i wasnt talking about christianity, but the image christians made of god
Permalink
| August 16, 2009, 4:25 pm
 Group admin 
Quoting Father Khal
1. it wasnt that cause sol invictus was simply a ceremony to celebrate longer days again

2.ok but why in christmas plays do we use em on every single angel/saint?

3. cannonization

4.this wasnt introduced UNTIL we met the aztecs and converted some(holy roman empire(catholic) not roman)

5.same point

6.i wasnt talking about christianity, but the image christians made of god

So you don't beleive in the Lord's Supper?
Permalink
| August 16, 2009, 4:29 pm
 Group moderator 
Quoting Commander Rusty
So you don't beleive in the Lord's Supper?

yes but...plz dont turn this into a "so ur not a christian then?!?" argument...anyway bk to the point i do believe in it im simply saying it wasnt distinctivly christianity who started it
Permalink
| August 16, 2009, 4:32 pm
I don't know what everybody is fighting about. If you don't believe in something that the Bible clearly talks about, that is your problem. The Bible clearly talks about the Lord's Supper, and many other things that some of the people on here don't believe. Evolution is crazy. The Bible talks about creation plain as day. So, instead of fighting about if things like that were real of not, go read the Bible for your answer.
Permalink
| August 16, 2009, 4:40 pm
 Group admin 
Quoting Father Khal
yes but...plz dont turn this into a "so ur not a christian then?!?" argument...anyway bk to the point i do believe in it im simply saying it wasnt distinctivly christianity who started it

Ok, I understand but here you can say that every religion has a bit of Christianity because Christianity is the truth but if you don't believe that Christianity is the truth then you can say Christianity has a bit of every religion. It just depends on whether or not you believe that Christianity is from God.
Permalink
| August 16, 2009, 4:44 pm
 Group moderator 
Quoting Tyler Samantha
I don't know what everybody is fighting about. If you don't believe in something that the Bible clearly talks about, that is your problem. The Bible clearly talks about the Lord's Supper, and many other things that some of the people on here don't believe. Evolution is crazy. The Bible talks about creation plain as day. So, instead of fighting about if things like that were real of not, go read the Bible for your answer.

point 1. we're having a friendly discussion
point 2. we're discussing christian ritiuals not creationism(though that also is a good point to argue)

Permalink
| August 16, 2009, 4:44 pm
 Group moderator 
Quoting Commander Rusty
Ok, I understand but here you can say that every religion has a bit of Christianity because Christianity is the truth but if you don't believe that Christianity is the truth then you can say Christianity has a bit of every religion. It just depends on whether or not you believe that Christianity is from God.

yes i do believe but the argument was r the rituals of christianity simply repackaged/recycled bits of other religions
Permalink
| August 16, 2009, 4:48 pm
Quoting Father Khal
yes i do believe but the argument was r the rituals of christianity simply repackaged/recycled bits of other religions


There are quite a few stories in the bible that are remarkably similar to various Greek myths... And Jesus is quite similar to one of the Egyptian mythological guys, called Horus, I think. I have a feeling I've brought that up before.
Permalink
| August 16, 2009, 4:50 pm
 Group admin 
Quoting Father Khal
yes i do believe but the argument was r the rituals of christianity simply repackaged/recycled bits of other religions

Yes, thats my point. If you think Christianity is true then there is no way that anything is borrwed from another religion, but if you don't believe that, then you could think that Christianity is simply a mish-mash of other religions.
Permalink
| August 16, 2009, 4:57 pm
 Group moderator 
Quoting Awesome-o-saurus The Not-So-Great

There are quite a few stories in the bible that are remarkably similar to various Greek myths... And Jesus is quite similar to one of the Egyptian mythological guys, called Horus, I think. I have a feeling I've brought that up before.

horus the egyptian god of WAR?!?
Permalink
| August 16, 2009, 4:57 pm
 Group moderator 
Quoting Commander Rusty
Yes, thats my point. If you think Christianity is true then there is no way that anything is borrwed from another religion, but if you don't believe that, then you could think that Christianity is simply a mish-mash of other religions.

yeah ok i get ur point so anyone else wanna join in then?
Permalink
| August 16, 2009, 5:01 pm
Quoting Father Khal
horus the egyptian god of WAR?!?


Key words: "I think"

So maybe it wasn't Horus. But I know there was one that was really similar. To the internet!
Permalink
| August 16, 2009, 5:04 pm
 Group moderator 
Quoting Awesome-o-saurus The Not-So-Great

Key words: "I think"

So maybe it wasn't Horus. But I know there was one that was really similar. To the internet!

i checked horus on the internet...think it might be ra?
Permalink
| August 16, 2009, 5:07 pm
Quoting Father Khal
i checked horus on the internet...think it might be ra?


I think it might actually be Horus. See, I've found that he can be interpretted as different ways, kind of. There's sun god Horus, sky god Horus, war god Horus, and savior god Horus. The one I'm thinking of I'm pretty sure is savior god Horus.
Permalink
| August 16, 2009, 5:30 pm
 Group moderator 
Quoting Awesome-o-saurus The Not-So-Great

I think it might actually be Horus. See, I've found that he can be interpretted as different ways, kind of. There's sun god Horus, sky god Horus, war god Horus, and savior god Horus. The one I'm thinking of I'm pretty sure is savior god Horus.

ah yes i found that out a while ago

i thought ra was the sun god...well anyway it might mean it in the sense head god
Permalink
| August 16, 2009, 5:34 pm
 Group admin 
Khal in a way you are correct we are a partial offshoot of Judaism but we introduced forgiveness without the need of sacrifice since Jesus died for us we no longer need to sacrifice for our sins.
Permalink
| August 16, 2009, 11:04 pm
"Yes, thats my point. If you think Christianity is true then there is no way that anything is borrwed from another religion, but if you don't believe that, then you could think that Christianity is simply a mish-mash of other religions."

Taking cultural symbolism and icons does not count as a mish-mash of other religions if you really thing about it. The thing is, people don't know what God looks like. So what would be the common sense thing to do? People use artistic expression, and symbolisms of their own culture to relay the message of Christ. If you travel to Europe from America cultures are dramatically different. So if Americans came over to africa with a picture of a white man, with a large dress suit, and an ipod in both ears, do you think the African population would be able to grasp the idea? It is highly unlikely, therefore Christianity will change customs from different places it is heard. Just because they are different images, doesn't mean they aren't the same person, they are merely different representations of the same God.

Yes, Zeus looks like the God of the bible. I think that is merely because that culture had been worshiping that figure head as the main God and came to know a creator of those qualities. Just because they use him as symbolism for the God of the bible doesn't mean we stole that belief, it means that they view God as an old man with a beard... as it where.

Also, one last input. You have pointed out that Christianity has used some of the same things as other religions. Point taken. However, don't you find it strange that all creation stories, seem to derive and bear resemblance to the Christian creation story? And some of their beliefs reflect the same thing. So I don't think it is going out on a limb to say that although millions of miles apart, and never in contact with each other, the world seems to stray towards the same flow of events... coincidence? It would also not be out there to suggest, that maybe all of these cultures who where then far apart, all shared a common starting point. The Christian, Judaism, and Islamic view of creation (being the same mostly) are the stories that have remained constant throughout the years of Earth. They are also the oldest account, which leaves me reason to believe that these religions are not copying from each other, but representing the same story, in different view points.



Permalink
| August 16, 2009, 11:05 pm
I am amazed at Christianity's negativity towards Muslims because they believe in one God like we do so I don't see why we fight over that.
Permalink
| August 16, 2009, 11:12 pm
Quoting Squirelly .
I am amazed at Christianity's negativity towards Muslims because they believe in one God like we do so I don't see why we fight over that.


Well, Islam is basically a militant religion.
Its holy book goes on in some detail about killing the infidels to make them convert and how women are inferior.

The Koran also includes references to Moses and Jesus, possibly among others, but not as the Bible does: according to the Koran, Jesus was just a prophet, not the messiah.

Christianity, on the other hand, is mainly peaceful outside of the Old Testament, which was mostly just proving that mankind can't attain perfection by following rules.
Permalink
| August 17, 2009, 12:29 am
 Group moderator 
Quoting Areetsa C

Well, Islam is basically a militant religion.
Its holy book goes on in some detail about killing the infidels to make them convert and how women are inferior.

The Koran also includes references to Moses and Jesus, possibly among others, but not as the Bible does: according to the Koran, Jesus was just a prophet, not the messiah.

Christianity, on the other hand, is mainly peaceful outside of the Old Testament, which was mostly just proving that mankind can't attain perfection by following rules.

WHAT?!? islam is one of the most peaceful nations on earth! the quran says nothing about killing infidels...only it does call for holy wars but only at times of sheer desperation! killing infidels is the work of extremists like al qaeda
Permalink
| August 17, 2009, 6:15 am
 Group moderator 
Quoting Daa Bob
"Yes, thats my point. If you think Christianity is true then there is no way that anything is borrwed from another religion, but if you don't believe that, then you could think that Christianity is simply a mish-mash of other religions."

Taking cultural symbolism and icons does not count as a mish-mash of other religions if you really thing about it. The thing is, people don't know what God looks like. So what would be the common sense thing to do? People use artistic expression, and symbolisms of their own culture to relay the message of Christ. If you travel to Europe from America cultures are dramatically different. So if Americans came over to africa with a picture of a white man, with a large dress suit, and an ipod in both ears, do you think the African population would be able to grasp the idea? It is highly unlikely, therefore Christianity will change customs from different places it is heard. Just because they are different images, doesn't mean they aren't the same person, they are merely different representations of the same God.

Yes, Zeus looks like the God of the bible. I think that is merely because that culture had been worshiping that figure head as the main God and came to know a creator of those qualities. Just because they use him as symbolism for the God of the bible doesn't mean we stole that belief, it means that they view God as an old man with a beard... as it where.

Also, one last input. You have pointed out that Christianity has used some of the same things as other religions. Point taken. However, don't you find it strange that all creation stories, seem to derive and bear resemblance to the Christian creation story? And some of their beliefs reflect the same thing. So I don't think it is going out on a limb to say that although millions of miles apart, and never in contact with each other, the world seems to stray towards the same flow of events... coincidence? It would also not be out there to suggest, that maybe all of these cultures who where then far apart, all shared a common starting point. The Christian, Judaism, and Islamic view of creation (being the same mostly) are the stories that have remained constant throughout the years of Earth. They are also the oldest account, which leaves me reason to believe that these religions are not copying from each other, but representing the same story, in different view points.



well according to the bible we r the exact reproduction of god so he should look human

zeus...your point is good but incorrect...when every greek(and that regions other countrys) states turned to christianity they asked the church wat their new god looked like...so the church made a wise decision by choosing the most fearful, powerful and wisest god of all time...zeus

finally good point but i would have to disagree when u said ALL. there are many different ones such as pan ku and the story of creation behind the indians(red)


Permalink
| August 17, 2009, 6:26 am
Quoting Father Khal
WHAT?!? islam is one of the most peaceful nations on earth! the quran says nothing about killing infidels...only it does call for holy wars but only at times of sheer desperation! killing infidels is the work of extremists like al qaeda


Islam is not and never was a fundamentally peaceful religion, much as christians are bound by their faith to not worship pagan deities.

Here: http://www.ethicalatheist.com/docs/islam_infidels.html

http://moriel.org/MorielArchive/index.php/discernment/islam/peace-by-appeasement-peace-with-islam

http://moriel.org/MorielArchive/index.php/discernment/islam/what-motivates-fundamental-muslims-to-violence

Also, Islam is a religion. Not a nation.
Not a very pleasant one either, with a lot of fundamentally vicious laws.

I must admit though that if I were running things it wouldn't be very nice for the lawbreakers either; say, murderers being executed by the families of their victims, homosexuals being harshly penalized, thieves being forced to repay, with interest, what they stole, armed soldiers at every other corner, armoured vehicles in the streets, escaped criminals being shot on sight, fully automatic personal weapons for all law-abiding citizens etc. etc, but at least I don't support marrying off eight-year-old girls to men six times their age.
Permalink
| August 17, 2009, 7:30 am
 Group moderator 
Quoting Areetsa C

Islam is not and never was a fundamentally peaceful religion, much as christians are bound by their faith to not worship pagan deities.

Here: http://www.ethicalatheist.com/docs/islam_infidels.html

http://moriel.org/MorielArchive/index.php/discernment/islam/peace-by-appeasement-peace-with-islam

http://moriel.org/MorielArchive/index.php/discernment/islam/what-motivates-fundamental-muslims-to-violence

Also, Islam is a religion. Not a nation.
Not a very pleasant one either, with a lot of fundamentally vicious laws.

I must admit though that if I were running things it wouldn't be very nice for the lawbreakers either; say, murderers being executed by the families of their victims, homosexuals being harshly penalized, thieves being forced to repay, with interest, what they stole, armed soldiers at every other corner, armoured vehicles in the streets, escaped criminals being shot on sight, fully automatic personal weapons for all law-abiding citizens etc. etc, but at least I don't support marrying off eight-year-old girls to men ten times their age.

first point...name me one text in the quran that says "drive the infadels out!"

second...no nation, nation of islam is the entire people places and states of islam

third...ur not any different since ur country still has the death penalty as we all did at their level of poverty, ethics, morals and development

fourth...ur ancestors married young girls
oh and its 12-14 not 8
Permalink
| August 17, 2009, 7:40 am
 Group moderator 
Quoting Areetsa C

Islam is not and never was a fundamentally peaceful religion, much as christians are bound by their faith to not worship pagan deities.

Here: http://www.ethicalatheist.com/docs/islam_infidels.html

http://moriel.org/MorielArchive/index.php/discernment/islam/peace-by-appeasement-peace-with-islam

http://moriel.org/MorielArchive/index.php/discernment/islam/what-motivates-fundamental-muslims-to-violence

Also, Islam is a religion. Not a nation.
Not a very pleasant one either, with a lot of fundamentally vicious laws.

I must admit though that if I were running things it wouldn't be very nice for the lawbreakers either; say, murderers being executed by the families of their victims, homosexuals being harshly penalized, thieves being forced to repay, with interest, what they stole, armed soldiers at every other corner, armoured vehicles in the streets, escaped criminals being shot on sight, fully automatic personal weapons for all law-abiding citizens etc. etc, but at least I don't support marrying off eight-year-old girls to men ten times their age.

first point...name me one text in the quran that says "drive the infadels out!"

second...no nation, nation of islam is the entire people places and states of islam

third...ur not any different since ur country still has the death penalty as we all did at their level of poverty, ethics, morals and development

fourth...ur ancestors married young girls
oh and its 12-14 not 8
Permalink
| August 17, 2009, 7:41 am
Quoting Areetsa C

Well, Islam is basically a militant religion.
Its holy book goes on in some detail about killing the infidels to make them convert and how women are inferior.

The Koran also includes references to Moses and Jesus, possibly among others, but not as the Bible does: according to the Koran, Jesus was just a prophet, not the messiah.

Christianity, on the other hand, is mainly peaceful outside of the Old Testament, which was mostly just proving that mankind can't attain perfection by following rules.

Well I was taught in school that Islam isn't supposed to kill. I think those are the "bad" Islams.
Permalink
| August 17, 2009, 12:20 pm
 Group moderator 
Quoting Squirelly .
Well I was taught in school that Islam isn't supposed to kill. I think those are the "bad" Islams.

extremists and fundamentalists
Permalink
| August 17, 2009, 2:12 pm
 Group admin 
Quoting Father Khal
first point...name me one text in the quran that says "drive the infadels out!"

second...no nation, nation of islam is the entire people places and states of islam

third...ur not any different since ur country still has the death penalty as we all did at their level of poverty, ethics, morals and development

fourth...ur ancestors married young girls
oh and its 12-14 not 8

Actually, ask any real believer of Islam and they will tell you that the Koran tells them that if the kill an infidel AKA non-believer in Islam they are assured a place in heaven.
Permalink
| August 17, 2009, 6:11 pm
 Group moderator 
Quoting Spartan 26 "Rusty"
Actually, ask any real believer of Islam and they will tell you that the Koran tells them that if the kill an infidel AKA non-believer in Islam they are assured a place in heaven.

yeah when theres a holy war on
Permalink
| August 17, 2009, 6:14 pm
 Group admin 
Quoting Father Khal
yeah when theres a holy war on

But that means that their very religion commands them to kill. Peaceful, eh?
Permalink
| August 17, 2009, 6:20 pm
 Group moderator 
Quoting Spartan 26 "Rusty"
But that means that their very religion commands them to kill. Peaceful, eh?

ur forgetting one of my other points...the quran only calls for a holy war in an act of sheer desperation...when there is no alternative
Permalink
| August 17, 2009, 6:23 pm
 Group admin 
Quoting Father Khal
ur forgetting one of my other points...the quran only calls for a holy war in an act of sheer desperation...when there is no alternative

Tell that to the thousands of dead inoccents who were killed by the Muslims. Their book may SAY only to launch a jihad in complete desperation but that is certainly not what the Muslims do.
Permalink
| August 17, 2009, 6:27 pm
 Group moderator 
Quoting Spartan 26 "Rusty"
Tell that to the thousands of dead inoccents who were killed by the Muslims. Their book may SAY only to launch a jihad in complete desperation but that is certainly not what the Muslims do.

yeah killed by the EXTREMISTS! not all muslims are killers! to thik that is predjudiced and racis...also i might tell it to the tens otf thousand christians who sacked, pillaged and murdered their way through the holy land in the crusades, the tens of thousands of muslims dead from that excursion as well as all the rape0 women and the persecuted muslims who live in our country and r abused every day. check and mate
Permalink
| August 17, 2009, 6:39 pm
Quoting Father Khal
yeah killed by the EXTREMISTS! not all muslims are killers! to thik that is predjudiced and racis...also i might tell it to the tens otf thousand christians who sacked, pillaged and murdered their way through the holy land in the crusades, the tens of thousands of muslims dead from that excursion as well as all the rape0 women and the persecuted muslims who live in our country and r abused every day. check and mate

He got PWNED!!!!!
Permalink
| August 17, 2009, 6:45 pm
 Group moderator 
Quoting Cole Fynn
He got PWNED!!!!!

thank u cole
Permalink
| August 17, 2009, 6:46 pm
Quoting Father Khal
first point...name me one text in the quran that says "drive the infadels out!"

second...no nation, nation of islam is the entire people places and states of islam

third...ur not any different since ur country still has the death penalty as we all did at their level of poverty, ethics, morals and development

fourth...ur ancestors married young girls
oh and its 12-14 not 8


Firstly, I've never read and never plan to read the Koran.
Second, Islam is not a nation on any atlas I've ever seen.
Third, my country does not have the death penalty.
If I was running it it would, but currently it does not. In fact, the police don't even carry weapons on their persons.
Fourth, your argument is invalid as the present discussion is about the present as opposed to the distant past.
Permalink
| August 17, 2009, 6:46 pm
 Group moderator 
Quoting Areetsa C

Firstly, I've never read and never plan to read the Koran.
Second, Islam is not a nation on any atlas I've ever seen.
Third, my country does not have the death penalty.
If I was running it it would, but currently it does not. In fact, the police don't even carry weapons on their persons.
Fourth, your argument is invalid as the present discussion is about the present as opposed to the distant past.

ah right yeah sorry i forgot u were a fellow brit(our education system sucks dont it?!)

firstly neither have i fully

second it is refered to as a nation...u know when reporters go "fundamentalists of the nation of islam have yet again...bla bla bla"

third...my mistake and yet again im sorry

fourth islam had nothing to do with my argument till squirelly(correct me if im wrong brought it up)
Permalink
| August 17, 2009, 6:51 pm
 Group admin 
where is your country?
Permalink
| August 17, 2009, 6:59 pm
Quoting Lt. John Harland
where is your country?


New Zealand, actually.
Permalink
| August 17, 2009, 7:10 pm
 Group moderator 
Quoting Areetsa C

New Zealand, actually.

i thought u were british! cause i saw u in bfol i guess
Permalink
| August 17, 2009, 7:19 pm
 Group admin 
Quoting Father Khal
yeah killed by the EXTREMISTS! not all muslims are killers! to thik that is predjudiced and racis...also i might tell it to the tens otf thousand christians who sacked, pillaged and murdered their way through the holy land in the crusades, the tens of thousands of muslims dead from that excursion as well as all the rape0 women and the persecuted muslims who live in our country and r abused every day. check and mate

No not all muslims are killers. I NEVER said that. What I did say is that all the fundemental true Muslims still tend to this. Also, Christians are tortured to death in Muslim countries. Check and mate yourself.
Permalink
| August 17, 2009, 7:25 pm
 Group admin 
Quoting Father Khal
yeah killed by the EXTREMISTS! not all muslims are killers! to thik that is predjudiced and racis...also i might tell it to the tens otf thousand christians who sacked, pillaged and murdered their way through the holy land in the crusades, the tens of thousands of muslims dead from that excursion as well as all the rape0 women and the persecuted muslims who live in our country and r abused every day. check and mate

No not all muslims are killers. I NEVER said that. What I did say is that all the fundemental true Muslims still tend to this. Also, Christians are tortured to death in Muslim countries. Check and mate yourself.
Permalink
| August 17, 2009, 7:31 pm
 Group admin 
Quoting Father Khal
yeah killed by the EXTREMISTS! not all muslims are killers! to thik that is predjudiced and racis...also i might tell it to the tens otf thousand christians who sacked, pillaged and murdered their way through the holy land in the crusades, the tens of thousands of muslims dead from that excursion as well as all the rape0 women and the persecuted muslims who live in our country and r abused every day. check and mate

No not all muslims are killers. I NEVER said that. What I did say is that all the fundemental true Muslims still tend to this. Also, Christians are tortured to death in Muslim countries. Check and mate yourself.
Permalink
| August 17, 2009, 7:33 pm
 Group moderator 
Quoting Spartan 26 "Rusty"
No not all muslims are killers. I NEVER said that. What I did say is that all the fundemental true Muslims still tend to this. Also, Christians are tortured to death in Muslim countries. Check and mate yourself.
ok but wat about guantanamo bay? are we any different? i think we can all agree both religions are as bad as each other...how does the saying go?...it takes two to tango!

Permalink
| August 17, 2009, 7:36 pm
 Group admin 
Quoting Father Khal
Quoting Spartan 26 "Rusty"
No not all muslims are killers. I NEVER said that. What I did say is that all the fundemental true Muslims still tend to this. Also, Christians are tortured to death in Muslim countries. Check and mate yourself.
ok but wat about guantanamo bay? are we any different? i think we can all agree both religions are as bad as each other...how does the saying go?...it takes two to tango!

Ahh, but you see there is a diference.
Permalink
| August 17, 2009, 7:41 pm
 Group moderator 
Quoting Spartan 26 "Rusty"
Ahh, but you see there is a diference.

which is?
Permalink
| August 17, 2009, 7:45 pm
 Group admin 
Quoting Father Khal
which is?

Which is that Christianity is true and not a lie. Christianity shouldn't be called a religion because it is about having a personal relationship with God. Thus, you cannot call it a religion. And Islam is a lie.
Permalink
| August 17, 2009, 7:55 pm
I am a Christian who has actually read the Quran to see what it is all about.

1. The Nation of Islam is a branch of Islam located in the United States. It is like evangelical, Catholic branchs of Christianity. However, I believe the Islamic community shunned them for certain practices

2. The Quran does say things about infidels, however they do not say Christians and Jews are infidels. They are actually referred to as brothers from what I have gathered. The Infidels are the people who haven't branched out of the Jewish religion.

3. The killing of infidels really is a lie from terrorists, who are ratical islamists. Only a small handful of islam actually believes in killing like that. The terrorists are good at mind washing others till the point where they actually believe it to be true, whether it is in the Quran or not.

4. Frankly I think the killing is more of an effect of the crusades. I for one don't hate people who are muslim, however I don't agree with them when it comes to their view of Christ. Each religion has its hypocrits, who say they are all about peace and completely go the out of their way for war. Again, picking out one or two Christians out of the whole body of Christ doesn't mean that the Christian community as a whole hates islam, only a few people who are radical against them.

5. The governments in some Middle Eastern countries are also based upon the teachings of the Quran, just like the American government has a lot of influences of Christianity. So, where ever you go there will be some government ruled or influenced by a religion.

Alright back to this thing about Zeus and such. Um basically you just restated what I said. The church agreed to keeping the images they had of God, one because they could relate to that image. That is why they wouldn't shun christianity, because the image of their God had been that way since they could remember, and it was easy to see from their cultural prospective what the God of the bible looked like.

As for the indian story, I was referring to the Iroquois creation myth. Yah the Chinese one about the giant egg may have more similarities then you remember. I will read it one more time and get back to you on that, however, I think you should do the same so that we can both critique it without any biased from each other on this site. Tomorrow Ill post the similtarities, and you can feel free to point out where there is no resemblance at all.

Just to re state, I think that the different representations of God are still so that the people believing it can relate to the God Christians preach. Yah, the Christians of Europe definitely adapted the Greek image of God and Christ. Where ever they went, that view followed them as well. However, your view of God is largely reliant on your culture, and your outlook on life.
Permalink
| August 17, 2009, 8:24 pm
I am a Christian who has actually read the Quran to see what it is all about.

1. The Nation of Islam is a branch of Islam located in the United States. It is like evangelical, Catholic branchs of Christianity. However, I believe the Islamic community shunned them for certain practices

2. The Quran does say things about infidels, however they do not say Christians and Jews are infidels. They are actually referred to as brothers from what I have gathered. The Infidels are the people who haven't branched out of the Jewish religion.

3. The killing of infidels really is a lie from terrorists, who are ratical islamists. Only a small handful of islam actually believes in killing like that. The terrorists are good at mind washing others till the point where they actually believe it to be true, whether it is in the Quran or not.

4. Frankly I think the killing is more of an effect of the crusades. I for one don't hate people who are muslim, however I don't agree with them when it comes to their view of Christ. Each religion has its hypocrits, who say they are all about peace and completely go the out of their way for war. Again, picking out one or two Christians out of the whole body of Christ doesn't mean that the Christian community as a whole hates islam, only a few people who are radical against them.

5. The governments in some Middle Eastern countries are also based upon the teachings of the Quran, just like the American government has a lot of influences of Christianity. So, where ever you go there will be some government ruled or influenced by a religion.

Alright back to this thing about Zeus and such. Um basically you just restated what I said. The church agreed to keeping the images they had of God, one because they could relate to that image. That is why they wouldn't shun christianity, because the image of their God had been that way since they could remember, and it was easy to see from their cultural prospective what the God of the bible looked like.

As for the indian story, I was referring to the Iroquois creation myth. Yah the Chinese one about the giant egg may have more similarities then you remember. I will read it one more time and get back to you on that, however, I think you should do the same so that we can both critique it without any biased from each other on this site. Tomorrow Ill post the similtarities, and you can feel free to point out where there is no resemblance at all.

Just to re state, I think that the different representations of God are still so that the people believing it can relate to the God Christians preach. Yah, the Christians of Europe definitely adapted the Greek image of God and Christ. Where ever they went, that view followed them as well. However, your view of God is largely reliant on your culture, and your outlook on life.
Permalink
| August 17, 2009, 8:32 pm
 Group moderator 
Quoting Daa Bob
I am a Christian who has actually read the Quran to see what it is all about.

1. The Nation of Islam is a branch of Islam located in the United States. It is like evangelical, Catholic branchs of Christianity. However, I believe the Islamic community shunned them for certain practices

2. The Quran does say things about infidels, however they do not say Christians and Jews are infidels. They are actually referred to as brothers from what I have gathered. The Infidels are the people who haven't branched out of the Jewish religion.

3. The killing of infidels really is a lie from terrorists, who are ratical islamists. Only a small handful of islam actually believes in killing like that. The terrorists are good at mind washing others till the point where they actually believe it to be true, whether it is in the Quran or not.

4. Frankly I think the killing is more of an effect of the crusades. I for one don't hate people who are muslim, however I don't agree with them when it comes to their view of Christ. Each religion has its hypocrits, who say they are all about peace and completely go the out of their way for war. Again, picking out one or two Christians out of the whole body of Christ doesn't mean that the Christian community as a whole hates islam, only a few people who are radical against them.

5. The governments in some Middle Eastern countries are also based upon the teachings of the Quran, just like the American government has a lot of influences of Christianity. So, where ever you go there will be some government ruled or influenced by a religion.

Alright back to this thing about Zeus and such. Um basically you just restated what I said. The church agreed to keeping the images they had of God, one because they could relate to that image. That is why they wouldn't shun christianity, because the image of their God had been that way since they could remember, and it was easy to see from their cultural prospective what the God of the bible looked like.

As for the indian story, I was referring to the Iroquois creation myth. Yah the Chinese one about the giant egg may have more similarities then you remember. I will read it one more time and get back to you on that, however, I think you should do the same so that we can both critique it without any biased from each other on this site. Tomorrow Ill post the similtarities, and you can feel free to point out where there is no resemblance at all.

Just to re state, I think that the different representations of God are still so that the people believing it can relate to the God Christians preach. Yah, the Christians of Europe definitely adapted the Greek image of God and Christ. Where ever they went, that view followed them as well. However, your view of God is largely reliant on your culture, and your outlook on life.

pan ku is the story with the egg
Permalink
| August 27, 2009, 2:43 pm
Yah thank you, I couldn't remember what it was called. My bad if I offended anyone. I read it through and here is what I gathered. I have attached the story below:

"In the beginning, the world had no heaven or earth. The universe was a black egg, in which Pan Ku slept. After 18,000 years of existing like this, Pan Ku awoke and the egg broke in two. The top part, which was light and clear, became heaven and the bottom, which was dense and dark, the earth. Thus, the concept of yin-yang, the two sides that made a whole.

Pan Ku was born larger than any man and with a hammer and chisel in hand. With these tools, he further separated the sky and the land. He was helped by four mythical creaters: tiger, phoenix, dragon, and tortoise. After another 18,000 years, he had built enough to assure the heaven and earth would never meet again.

When he died, he filled in the rest of the world. His breath created the wind and clouds. His flesh became soil, his bones rock, and his blood filled the rivers and seas. His limbs and body became the five major mountains in China. His hair became the stars in the sky. From his sweat came the rain to nourish the land. His eyes became the sun and the moon. And finally, from the small creatures on his body, which has been equated to parasites in some translations, came man."


First, I see that again there is a single deity/person in which the world/ universe as we know it is created by. He creates sky and earth, and then animals and so forth. Almost the equivalent to the Christian creation story. Next, man is the last one created. Although they are not considered the crown of God's creation they are in fact created last, which also remains the same from the Christian outlook. Also remember, that this came about around 220-265 AD in which the Chinese had no recorded contact with the outside view of Christianity.
Permalink
| August 29, 2009, 3:10 pm
 Group moderator 
Quoting Daa Bob
Yah thank you, I couldn't remember what it was called. My bad if I offended anyone. I read it through and here is what I gathered. I have attached the story below:

"In the beginning, the world had no heaven or earth. The universe was a black egg, in which Pan Ku slept. After 18,000 years of existing like this, Pan Ku awoke and the egg broke in two. The top part, which was light and clear, became heaven and the bottom, which was dense and dark, the earth. Thus, the concept of yin-yang, the two sides that made a whole.

Pan Ku was born larger than any man and with a hammer and chisel in hand. With these tools, he further separated the sky and the land. He was helped by four mythical creaters: tiger, phoenix, dragon, and tortoise. After another 18,000 years, he had built enough to assure the heaven and earth would never meet again.

When he died, he filled in the rest of the world. His breath created the wind and clouds. His flesh became soil, his bones rock, and his blood filled the rivers and seas. His limbs and body became the five major mountains in China. His hair became the stars in the sky. From his sweat came the rain to nourish the land. His eyes became the sun and the moon. And finally, from the small creatures on his body, which has been equated to parasites in some translations, came man."


First, I see that again there is a single deity/person in which the world/ universe as we know it is created by. He creates sky and earth, and then animals and so forth. Almost the equivalent to the Christian creation story. Next, man is the last one created. Although they are not considered the crown of God's creation they are in fact created last, which also remains the same from the Christian outlook. Also remember, that this came about around 220-265 AD in which the Chinese had no recorded contact with the outside view of Christianity.

most creation stories are like that
Permalink
| August 29, 2009, 6:28 pm
Yep that was my point. If they are all that similar, it is not to far off to say that maybe the same thing happened for the whole world. and that is God created everything?
Permalink
| August 29, 2009, 11:56 pm
 Group moderator 
Quoting Daa Bob
Yep that was my point. If they are all that similar, it is not to far off to say that maybe the same thing happened for the whole world. and that is God created everything?

could be...except for a few stories like the red indians, tribes in the amazon, the celts, and quite a few others
Permalink
| August 30, 2009, 6:16 am
If you point me in the direction of their stories, Ill read them and see if what I said was true. Feel free to attach a link or a certain story that you feel doesn't prove what I said. I am more than open to be proven wrong as of now.
Permalink
| August 30, 2009, 11:48 am
 Group moderator 
Quoting Daa Bob
If you point me in the direction of their stories, Ill read them and see if what I said was true. Feel free to attach a link or a certain story that you feel doesn't prove what I said. I am more than open to be proven wrong as of now.

heres a few

http://www.painsley.org.uk/re/signposts/y8/1-1creationandenvironment/c-abor.htm

http://www.painsley.org.uk/re/signposts/y8/1-1creationandenvironment/c-inuit.htm

http://www.painsley.org.uk/re/signposts/y8/1-1creationandenvironment/c-amrind.htm
Permalink
| August 30, 2009, 12:02 pm
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