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Taxation
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 Group admin 
Time for a new topic on the political side.

Should the government raise taxes or lower them?
What would be the ideal tax rate?
What about a flat tax?
Are tax brackets a just tool of revenue or something to have nightmares about?

Let's talk politics, shall we!
Permalink
| August 24, 2013, 6:51 am
 Group admin 
WE'll have to raise taxes if Obama wants to keep giving out free stuff.
Permalink
| August 25, 2013, 10:23 am
Quoting Michael K.
WE'll have to raise taxes if Obama wants to keep giving out free stuff.

We could just go deeper into debt.
Permalink
| August 25, 2013, 11:08 am
 Group admin 
Quoting Michael K.
WE'll have to raise taxes if Obama wants to keep giving out free stuff.
Why don't we do what Ronald Reagan did, lower taxes to increase revenue. It is really quite simple, if taxes go down companies will grow and hire more people, more money will be made, and thus the tax revenue will go up.
A flat is the best way though, everyone is taxed only for what they buy. This rewards productivity and does not prevent people from bettering their condition.
Permalink
| August 25, 2013, 12:27 pm
 Group admin 
Quoting The Object of Legend
Quoting Michael K.
WE'll have to raise taxes if Obama wants to keep giving out free stuff.
Why don't we do what Ronald Reagan did, lower taxes to increase revenue. It is really quite simple, if taxes go down companies will grow and hire more people, more money will be made, and thus the tax revenue will go up.
A flat is the best way though, everyone is taxed only for what they buy. This rewards productivity and does not prevent people from bettering their condition.

Normally I'd agree, but how will people be motivated to work if welfare pays better than minimum wage. As far as a flat tax, that'll never happen. The left politically depends on persecuting the "rich".
Permalink
| August 25, 2013, 12:33 pm
 Group admin 
Quoting Michael K.
Normally I'd agree, but how will people be motivated to work if welfare pays better than minimum wage. As far as a flat tax, that'll never happen. The left politically depends on persecuting the "rich".
For one thing welfare needs to go, or at least be cut down to the root, but that's another discussion.
Anyway, there are still people who don't take every drop of welfare they can get and are willing to work (Plenty of them in this economy).
Very true about the left. It's sad how many people ignore the facts and vote for them. The information is right in front of their faces but they don't want to learn, they don't want to change.

Permalink
| August 25, 2013, 1:33 pm
Quoting The Object of Legend
A flat is the best way though, everyone is taxed only for what they buy. This rewards productivity and does not prevent people from bettering their condition.

That sounds very much like the Fair Tax, which some American legislators are pushing for.
http://www.fairtax.org/site/PageServer
Permalink
| August 25, 2013, 9:58 pm
Considering that the government of the good ol' U-S-of-A can't make a profit running a whorehouse, I wouldn't hold my breath.
Permalink
| August 26, 2013, 2:44 am
Quoting The Object of Legend
Time for a new topic on the political side.

Should the government raise taxes or lower them?
What would be the ideal tax rate?
What about a flat tax?
Are tax brackets a just tool of revenue or something to have nightmares about?

Let's talk politics, shall we!

Stop playing war around the world.
Decrease the amount of the budget for defense.

With that you wouldnt need increasing taxes.
Permalink
| August 26, 2013, 4:14 am
 Group admin 
Quoting Locutus 666
Stop playing war around the world.
Decrease the amount of the budget for defense.

With that you wouldnt need increasing taxes.
Defense is one of the few things the government is supposed to spend money on. There is a lot of waste in the military, for sure, but you'll find waste anywhere you find the government. America's biggest problems budget wise are social security, and welfare programs.
Permalink
| August 26, 2013, 7:00 am
Quoting The Object of Legend
Quoting Locutus 666
Stop playing war around the world.
Decrease the amount of the budget for defense.

With that you wouldnt need increasing taxes.
Defense is one of the few things the government is supposed to spend money on. There is a lot of waste in the military, for sure, but you'll find waste anywhere you find the government. America's biggest problems budget wise are social security, and welfare programs.

How you mean that? Budget for defense is ok and social stuff to high???
Permalink
| August 26, 2013, 7:47 am
 Group admin 
Quoting The Object of Legend
Defense is one of the few things the government is supposed to spend money on. There is a lot of waste in the military, for sure, but you'll find waste anywhere you find the government. America's biggest problems budget wise are social security, and welfare programs.

Exactly!
Permalink
| August 26, 2013, 8:33 am
Yes, and the fact that defense spending is constitutional, and giving out free phones is not. Our federal government is actually tasked with very few things. The states are supposed to handle the rest.
Permalink
| August 26, 2013, 11:41 am
Quoting The Object of Legend
America's biggest problems budget wise are social security, and welfare programs.

We should have a welfare thread...
Permalink
| August 26, 2013, 11:44 am
Quoting Locutus 666
Stop playing war around the world.
Decrease the amount of the budget for defense.

With that you wouldnt need increasing taxes.

I agree. The real issue here is not revenue, but expenses. And the so-called defense budget (it seems more offensive than defensive to me) is one of the main problems.

Permalink
| August 26, 2013, 7:16 pm
Aaaaaand another America-exclusive topic.
Permalink
| August 27, 2013, 6:02 am
 Group admin 
Quoting Reaper the Ultimate .
Aaaaaand another America-exclusive topic.
How so? As far as I know every country in the world charges some kind of taxes.

Permalink
| August 27, 2013, 6:42 am
Quoting The Object of Legend
Quoting Reaper the Ultimate .
Aaaaaand another America-exclusive topic.
How so? As far as I know every country in the world charges some kind of taxes.

Yes but much of the discussion has turned to American taxes, which is to be expected, as there are a lot of Americans, and Europeans, here, certainly far more than Australians. I'm not complaining...exactly. It's just hard for others to weigh in on the issue.
Permalink
| August 27, 2013, 3:08 pm
 Group admin 
Quoting Reaper the Ultimate .
Yes but much of the discussion has turned to American taxes, which is to be expected, as there are a lot of Americans, and Europeans, here, certainly far more than Australians. I'm not complaining...exactly. It's just hard for others to weigh in on the issue.
How are taxes down under? Do you have any major budget problems?

Permalink
| August 27, 2013, 3:14 pm
Quoting The Object of Legend
Quoting Reaper the Ultimate .
Yes but much of the discussion has turned to American taxes, which is to be expected, as there are a lot of Americans, and Europeans, here, certainly far more than Australians. I'm not complaining...exactly. It's just hard for others to weigh in on the issue.
How are taxes down under? Do you have any major budget problems?

I have replied, but my comment went into moderation
Permalink
| August 27, 2013, 3:28 pm
 Group admin 
Quoting Reaper the Ultimate .
I have replied, but my comment went into moderation
That's weird, it didn't show up.

Permalink
| August 28, 2013, 6:58 am
Quoting The Object of Legend
Quoting Reaper the Ultimate .
I have replied, but my comment went into moderation
That's weird, it didn't show up.

Bother. It was a long one too. I'll trawl through my history and try to find it again
Permalink
| August 28, 2013, 3:29 pm
Quoting The Object of Legend
Quoting Reaper the Ultimate .
Yes but much of the discussion has turned to American taxes, which is to be expected, as there are a lot of Americans, and Europeans, here, certainly far more than Australians. I'm not complaining...exactly. It's just hard for others to weigh in on the issue.
How are taxes down under? Do you have any major budget problems?

Okay, so I have to type all this again it seems. Condensed version that might get through the filter, then:

Out Budget is a problem. There are a number of reasons, some of which are viable. The main one I have a gripe about is our welfare system. I don't believe we should cut people off becasue they can't afford education, or can't get a job. That's immoral, and people tend to have a problem with immoral things. No, the problem I have is this:
The government (which has spent 6 years under a Labor (Left-wing) leadership) has been giving out money, mostly, to anyone below a certain income bracket that asks. The problem is that we not only pay becasue people can't get jobs, but we also pay per child. Thus, people are able to have large numbers of children that they don't raise properly, and who grow up believing that living off this welfare system is appropriate. I mainly have a problem with this system because it is so unfair. But then, what in life isn't?
Permalink
| August 28, 2013, 3:47 pm
 Group admin 
Quoting Reaper the Ultimate .
I mainly have a problem with this system because it is so unfair. But then, what in life isn't?
That's what people don't understand about welfare, it pays people to be unproductive and selfish. Many of these people have no desire to improve their condition, they are content to live on money taken from working citizens. They think it's the governments job to take care of them, but it's not.
Permalink
| August 29, 2013, 6:41 am
Quoting The Object of Legend
Quoting Reaper the Ultimate .
I mainly have a problem with this system because it is so unfair. But then, what in life isn't?
That's what people don't understand about welfare, it pays people to be unproductive and selfish. Many of these people have no desire to improve their condition, they are content to live on money taken from working citizens. They think it's the governments job to take care of them, but it's not.

Is this your opinion about welfare? Because all people would think now to get money from the government and no more work?
In germany there is a big welfare. And there are a lot of people who say exactly what you said. But the truth is, that these "welfare-cheater" are only a very small amount of all of the welfare money-recievers.
If people recieve money from the government, there are lots of controls. This includes you have to bring evidence that you still try to get a job or your bank account is watched. if you get money from somewhere (f.e. you sold something in ebay) you have to explain where it comes from. After that, your monthly payment will be decreased by that amount.
So welfare isnt "money 4 free - have a nice life".
Permalink
| August 29, 2013, 7:03 am
There is the problem of multigenerational dependence; 'my parents were on welfare, all my cousins are on welfare, I'll live on welfare too and so will my children' and the 'cliff' where you make just enough money to be disqualified for welfare but not enough to actually improve- or, sometimes, maintain -your living conditions.
Permalink
| August 29, 2013, 11:52 am
Quoting The Object of Legend
Quoting Reaper the Ultimate .
I mainly have a problem with this system because it is so unfair. But then, what in life isn't?
That's what people don't understand about welfare, it pays people to be unproductive and selfish. Many of these people have no desire to improve their condition, they are content to live on money taken from working citizens. They think it's the governments job to take care of them, but it's not.

Exactly. There's no incentive to improve their position.
Permalink
| August 29, 2013, 3:20 pm
Quoting Areetsa C
There is the problem of multigenerational dependence; 'my parents were on welfare, all my cousins are on welfare, I'll live on welfare too and so will my children' and the 'cliff' where you make just enough money to be disqualified for welfare but not enough to actually improve- or, sometimes, maintain -your living conditions.

Indeed. I think I touched on the multi-generational issue, but I forgot to mention that "cliff". It is a tragic thing, and I know a few people who are in a situation like that. Not quite on the edge, but perilously close.
Permalink
| August 29, 2013, 3:23 pm
Quoting Locutus 666
Is this your opinion about welfare? Because all people would think now to get money from the government and no more work?
In germany there is a big welfare. And there are a lot of people who say exactly what you said. But the truth is, that these "welfare-cheater" are only a very small amount of all of the welfare money-recievers.
If people recieve money from the government, there are lots of controls. This includes you have to bring evidence that you still try to get a job or your bank account is watched. if you get money from somewhere (f.e. you sold something in ebay) you have to explain where it comes from. After that, your monthly payment will be decreased by that amount.
So welfare isnt "money 4 free - have a nice life".

I like that system. Unfortunately, in Australia, we don't have any checks. It really is "Here's your money, have fun"
Permalink
| August 29, 2013, 3:26 pm
Then there's the helpful busybodies who try to get minimum wages increased without doing anything to the other ones, so all of a sudden someone who's been slaving for years to climb up a few rungs is making exactly the same as the pot addict who cleans the toilets.


"There's a problem!"

"That's okay, Big Brother will fix it! He'll just make it so people have to do some arbitrary thing or they'll get kidnapped by men with guns and plastic badges! That'll make everything fair."
Permalink
| August 30, 2013, 1:28 am
 Group admin 
Quoting Medieval Guy
That sounds very much like the Fair Tax, which some American legislators are pushing for.
http://www.fairtax.org/site/PageServer
Their similar, both would be better than what we have now. One get rid of all taxes except the sales tax, the other is more in the middle.

Permalink
| September 2, 2013, 6:34 am
Taxes exist because people are stupid and can not spend money the right way. So they need a government (sadly made up of stupid people, but it is better than nothing) to tell them what to do.
Permalink
| September 2, 2013, 6:47 am
 Group admin 
Quoting Deus "Big D." Otiosus
Taxes exist because people are stupid and can not spend money the right way. So they need a government (sadly made up of stupid people, but it is better than nothing) to tell them what to do.
False. The government's job is to protect the life, liberty, and property of it's citizens. Taxes comprise the money used to do that. The unfortunate thing is that the government does far more than it is supposed to.
Permalink
| September 3, 2013, 1:56 pm
 Group admin 
Quoting Deus "Big D." Otiosus
Taxes exist because people are stupid and can not spend money the right way. So they need a government (sadly made up of stupid people, but it is better than nothing) to tell them what to do.

Taxes are necessary because if there were no taxes, no one would pay for the military.
Permalink
| September 5, 2013, 6:40 pm
Quoting The Object of Legend
Time for a new topic on the political side.

Should the government raise taxes or lower them?
What would be the ideal tax rate?
What about a flat tax?
Are tax brackets a just tool of revenue or something to have nightmares about?

Let's talk politics, shall we!


1. Lower them.
2. 10% on sales, 0% income, 0% on staples(bread, milk, eggs, meat, vegetables)
3. Read into the idea, but I prefer the "fair tax" if I had to choose.

4. tax brackets are the result of marxism and lazy math skills.
Permalink
| September 5, 2013, 9:06 pm
 Group admin 
Quoting Michael K.
Taxes are necessary because if there were no taxes, no one would pay for the military.

More than that though. Welfare, which was discussed above (I dunno about other countries, but a lot of people here in the states plan on living a lazy life, maybe getting a job at a fast food place, not caring about their or their countries' future, etc), energy, transportation, of course military, but most importantly, NASA!
Permalink
| September 6, 2013, 9:41 pm
 Group admin 
Quoting Achintya Prasad
Welfare, which was discussed above,

How is welfare a legit function of gov't? Gov't's job isn't to be a charity.
Quoting Achintya Prasad
energy

What should the gov't do about energy?
Quoting Achintya Prasad
transportation

Yeah, having all toll roads wouldn't work very well.
Quoting Achintya Prasad
but most importantly, NASA!

We have a debt crisis. There are more pressing matters. Besides, private industry is taking up the slack. For $250K, you'll soon be able to ride in a private space plane.
http://news.cnet.com/8301-11386_3-57601588-76/virgin-galactic-aircraft-cruises-to-supersonic-speeds/
Permalink
| September 6, 2013, 9:52 pm
 Group admin 
Quoting Michael K.
Quoting Achintya Prasad
Welfare, which was discussed above,

How is welfare a legit function of gov't? Gov't's job isn't to be a charity.
Quoting Achintya Prasad
energy

What should the gov't do about energy?
Quoting Achintya Prasad
transportation

Yeah, having all toll roads wouldn't work very well.
Quoting Achintya Prasad
but most importantly, NASA!

We have a debt crisis. There are more pressing matters. Besides, private industry is taking up the slack. For $250K, you'll soon be able to ride in a private space plane.
http://news.cnet.com/8301-11386_3-57601588-76/virgin-galactic-aircraft-cruises-to-supersonic-speeds/

I gave a lecture about NASA's importance a while back. Just to sum it up: literally everything in a 10 foot radius of you had some connection with NASA. Without it, and much of the modern world wouldn't be around.

Permalink
| September 6, 2013, 9:55 pm
 Group admin 
Quoting Achintya Prasad
I gave a lecture about NASA's importance a while back. Just to sum it up: literally everything in a 10 foot radius of you had some connection with NASA. Without it, and much of the modern world wouldn't be around.

We shouldn't stop researching, we just shouldn't be shooting off rockets we can't afford. Like I said, private companies are taking the lead. And you haven't answered my other questions.
Permalink
| September 6, 2013, 9:59 pm
 Group admin 
Quoting Michael K.
We shouldn't stop researching, we just shouldn't be shooting off rockets we can't afford. Like I said, private companies are taking the lead. And you haven't answered my other questions.

Sorry 'bout that, I was (and still am) enjoying some Thai noodles ;-)

Welfare, doesn't work.

Energy is often funded by the gov't. Hoover Dam is a prime example.
Permalink
| September 6, 2013, 10:00 pm
 Group admin 
Quoting Michael K.
We shouldn't stop researching, we just shouldn't be shooting off rockets we can't afford. Like I said, private companies are taking the lead. And you haven't answered my other questions.

Oh, and you gotta have airport security, and some to regulate train lines...
Permalink
| September 6, 2013, 10:01 pm
Quoting Achintya Prasad
Energy is often funded by the gov't. Hoover Dam is a prime example.

Not sure how it is in the states, but here in NS the government funds companies which exploit our resources, raise power rates for tax-payers, and stymie new technology...
Permalink
| September 6, 2013, 10:03 pm
 Group admin 
Quoting LukeClarenceVan The Revanchist
Not sure how it is in the states, but here in NS the government funds companies which exploit our resources, raise power rates for tax-payers, and stymie new technology...

Depends. For instance, I get my power from the Tennessee Valley Authority (TVA), which is government operated. Some, I think, power plants are private, but most energy plants need a lot of money to, you know, work, so they go to the gov't. We do also have the Department of Energy, so....
Permalink
| September 6, 2013, 10:06 pm
 Group admin 
Quoting Achintya Prasad
Depends. For instance, I get my power from the Tennessee Valley Authority (TVA), which is government operated. Some, I think, power plants are private, but most energy plants need a lot of money to, you know, work, so they go to the gov't. We do also have the Department of Energy, so....

Around here the power companies are private. They are regulated by the State Utilities Commission so they can't price gouge, as they have a monopoly. The water comes fro the city.
Permalink
| September 6, 2013, 10:41 pm
We can do taxes so much more efficiently, if the government stops paying out billions to people who are unemployed for years at a time. I know that people go through hard times, but there are literally generations of families that live off EBT and other unemployment things. They don't work, and therefore don't pay taxes. We should stop pumping money into things that are either unnecessary, or don't give us a return.
Permalink
| September 8, 2013, 9:22 am
 Group admin 
Quoting Jack K
We can do taxes so much more efficiently, if the government stops paying out billions to people who are unemployed for years at a time. I know that people go through hard times, but there are literally generations of families that live off EBT and other unemployment things. They don't work, and therefore don't pay taxes. We should stop pumping money into things that are either unnecessary, or don't give us a return.
So true, that's the basic rule of investment.

Permalink
| September 8, 2013, 10:40 am
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