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BL Origins and Intentions
We're all on the same page. This is what we last agreed on:

Quoting GDS
What we know or agree on:
-The Black Lotus will kill the corrupt/unworthy High King, Rowan, using Freeling (not necessarily for that reason).
-Brick Boy will try-but-fail to save the king.
-The Black Lotus will kill the Outlaw coordinator.
-FNJ and OoL will investigate the BL in their MOCs.
-Later, Nerogue and the Outlaws will team up to destroy the Black Lotus.
-The king is in Worsan.
-The king has two brothers, Sadon and Borin, who are the heirs to the throne.
-The BL is recruiting Outlaws to its ranks and sending them to Worsan.
-Freeling will kill the last member of the BL inner council.
-We will leave some loose ends to tie a later story onto.
-Rainos and Enalica do not incorporate their Black Lotus into their foreign policies, whatever individuals may decide. Instead, the alliance will likely take advantage of the chaos.
-The king's brother will take over Mythron.

What we do not yet agree on (to be decided on in this order once this thread has served its purpose):
-Why the BL will kill the king
-Who started the BL
-What the BL is doing with its Outlaw recruits
-Exactly why the BL kills the coordinator, and what the coordinator thinks of the BL.
-How the Mythronian High Princes fit into the plot, and which one becomes king.
-Order of events
-December events (probably not to be decided until November)


Now we're going to take this step by step until we have the most perfect storyline ever seen in the LOM, starting with THESE questions:

What is the Black Lotus?

Who founded it?

Who is in the inner circle?

Why does the BL kill the high king?
Permalink
| October 5, 2013, 3:13 pm
Some of the theories I remember:

Option A: The Black Lotus is a circle of elite mercenaries hired by Borin (the youngest prince of Mythron) to kill his older brothers.

Option B: The Black Lotus is a Mythronian secret society determined to end corruption in Mythron by clearing out the rot by force. They would rather see Sadon on the throne than Rowan, so they kill Rowan (the current high king).

Option C: The Black Lotus is run by a handful of Mythronian nobles who wish to eliminate the royalty and take power for themselves. They might want to do a better job, or they might undertake this operation for purely selfish reasons.

Option D: The Black Lotus actually is a handful of elite criminals who wish to lead their Outlaw brethren in toppling Mythron.

Option E: Illuminati

Other possibilities:

- There are two Black Lotuses. One is the organization causing the current trouble, and the other - the inspiration for the first - withholds its mystic power at present.

- The Black Lotus claims to follow one or more of the above theories, but actually fits another description.
Permalink
| October 5, 2013, 3:24 pm
 Group admin 
Current theories on what we don't know/agree on yet. Feel free to add any ideas to these points - either to the existing theories, or a completely different one. I can keep editing this comment as ideas are changed/added/deleted.


Note: brother = brother of the current king.



-Who are the Black Lotus?
The Black Lotus is a circle of elite mercenaries hired by Borin (the youngest prince of Mythron) to kill his older brothers.
There are two Black Lotuses. One is the organization causing the current trouble, and the other - the inspiration for the first - withholds its mystic power at present.
The Black Lotus is run by a handful of Mythronian nobles who wish to eliminate the royalty and take power for themselves. They might want to do a better job, or they might undertake this operation for purely selfish reasons.
The Black Lotus is a Mythronian secret society determined to end corruption in Mythron by clearing out the rot by force. They would rather see Sadon on the throne than Rowan, so they kill Rowan (the current high king).



-Why the BL will kill the king
Because they were hired
Because they want the second brother to become king because he would be a better king.
Because they want to rule, get rid of the bad king, and want to get rid of the organized structure of the outlaws.
The Black Lotus wish to lead their Outlaw brethren in toppling Mythron.


-Who started the BL
A Mythronian Official who wanted a better King (the second brother). The Official later becomes corrupt and killed by Freeling before he can kill the second brother and take the throne for himself.
The third brother. Later he will order the BL to try to kill the second brother, but they will fail because of Freeling. The third brother either remains unknown, or he runs away. Either way, he will be planning to strike again someday.
The Black Lotus started themselves.
Elite criminals.



-What the BL is doing with its Outlaw recruits
Using the Outlaw Coordinator to do a bunch of assassinations of different town leaders of varying factions to instill fear and to create so much distraction that it would be hard for anyone to find out the "big plot" to kill the king.
Nothing.



-Exactly why the BL kills the coordinator, and what the coordinator thinks of the BL.
Because the coordinator and Freeling do not want to follow the command to kill the second brother (thus enabling the third brother to rule, or for the Mythornian Official to rule, or for further power for the Black Lotus depending on who started the BL and why BL killed the high king).
Because they are back-stabbers; claiming one thing, and then doing another.
Because they don't want to risk anyone finding out who they are (could be tied in to the other two theories)



-How the Mythronian High Princes fit into the plot, and which one becomes king.
The third brother organizes the Black Lotus and wants them to kill the king and the second brother. When the BL fails to kill the second brother, the third brother either hides or says where he is because no one knows he organized the BL. Besides, the last BL dies at E-11 except for him. Now (after E-11) he is planning his next attack.
The second brother is next to become king. Either the BL like that the second brother is king, or they are ordered to kill the second brother because they want to secure their own power or because they were hired to do so.
The second brother becomes king (he is either saved by Freeling, or just comes to power with no hassle besides his older brother (the current king) was assassinated by the Black Lotus.




Permalink
| October 5, 2013, 3:35 pm
 Group admin 
Quoting Gilbert Despathens

I added your theories to my comment.
Permalink
| October 5, 2013, 3:41 pm
Okay, now that we have our theories, which ones do you want to become fact?
These are the options I liked:

Quoting Theories

-Who is the Black Lotus?
The Black Lotus is a circle of elite mercenaries hired by Borin (the youngest prince of Mythron) to kill his older brothers.
There are two Black Lotuses. One is the organization causing the current trouble, and the other - the inspiration for the first - withholds its mystic power at present.

-What do the Black Lotus say they are?
The Black Lotus changes its story based on who it is lying to, whether the listener is Freeling or another recruit. For example, if they are after a conscientious soldier, they tell him that they wish to end corruption and bring peace to the land. They spread rumors at random and stick to no official story.

-Why the BL will kill the king
They were hired by Borin (Borin the Betrayer - it has a nice ring to it).

-Who started the BL
The third brother. Later he will order the BL to try to kill the second brother, but they will fail. The third brother either remains unknown, or he runs away. Either way, he will be planning to strike again someday - or he will be killed by the original Black Lotus.

-How the Mythronian High Princes fit into the plot, and which one becomes king.
Borin, the third brother, organizes the Black Lotus and wants them to kill Rowan and Saldon to clear his way to the throne. When the BL fails to kill Saldon, the Borin either flees or is mysteriously found dead. Saldon is then crowned.



In a nutshell, Borin rounds up a group of elite outlaws and provides them with equipment and funds to kill his brothers. How the other outlaws, the coordinator and the BL official who hires Freeling fit in can be decided when we're through with this step.
Permalink
| October 5, 2013, 4:51 pm
 Group admin 
Quoting Gilbert Despathens

In a nutshell, Borin rounds up a group of elite outlaws and provides them with equipment and funds to kill his brothers. How the other outlaws, the coordinator and the BL official who hires Freeling fit in can be decided when we're through with this step.
I like the ones you picked as well. Let's see what the other admins think.

Permalink
| October 5, 2013, 5:21 pm
Quoting David the Fire Ninja Jedi
Quoting Gilbert Despathens

In a nutshell, Borin rounds up a group of elite outlaws and provides them with equipment and funds to kill his brothers. How the other outlaws, the coordinator and the BL official who hires Freeling fit in can be decided when we're through with this step.
I like the ones you picked as well. Let's see what the other admins think.

Off to a promising start.
Permalink
| October 5, 2013, 5:24 pm
Admins! Your opinions are solicited!
Permalink
| October 5, 2013, 8:03 pm
It seems like you guys have everything under control, but if you need me to build anything, I can. Just saying.
Permalink
| October 5, 2013, 9:40 pm
 Group admin 
I have to go for pretty much the whole day, but I'll read it in about 12 or so hours. Sorry I can't get to it now!
Permalink
| October 5, 2013, 10:00 pm
 Group admin 
Quoting Gilbert Despathens
Admins! Your opinions are solicited!
*Facepalm*
Permalink
| October 6, 2013, 6:29 am
 Group admin 
What is BL-
Black Lotus is a group of people within Mythronian government who are secretly working to overthrow the high king. (The king's middle brother is part of this group. They couldn't care less about the youngest brother)

Why does BL want to overthrow the king-
He has become corrupt, greedy, and will not listen to the common people.

What does Black Lotus intends to do-
For years they have been working peacefully but secretly to prove the king is incompetent and replace him with the middle brother. They also will create a Citizens' House to represent the common people.

What do the assassins have to do with BL-
One of the members of Black Lotus decided that they need to speed up their plan and resorted to extreme and violent measures. He used the 'Black Lotus' name and hired outlaws to kill the king.
(This is the bad guy. The rest of BL is actually good as I'm sure you see by now. This is the one member on BL that Freeling kills)

What happens to Black Lotus-
They take power because the middle brother is next in line and begin to reform the government.

Why they assassinate the coordinator-
Now that Black Lotus is in power they must deal with Mythron's enemies as any good government does. Plus the coordinator is a wanted criminal! Since the outlaws are a big problem and are now coming together, that is naturally something they need to deal with. Since the assassins were outlaws before, they seem like the perfect squad for the job.

What happens next-
The coordinator is killed, but the other outlaws track down and destroy BL's assassins.

Outcome-
1. Black Lotus and the middle brother take power.
2. The bad guys are eliminated.
3. Mythron get a better government that includes a Citizens' House.
4. Sozo becomes the new coordinator.
5. In the time being Rhinos and Enalica drive out Mythron.
Permalink
| October 6, 2013, 7:00 am
 Group admin 
Quoting The Object of Legend
What is BL-
Black Lotus is a group of people within Mythronian government who are secretly working to overthrow the high king. (The king's middle brother is part of this group. They couldn't care less about the youngest brother)

Why does BL want to overthrow the king-
He has become corrupt, greedy, and will not listen to the common people.

What does Black Lotus intends to do-
For years they have been working peacefully but secretly to prove the king is incompetent and replace him with the middle brother. They also will create a Citizens' House to represent the common people.

What do the assassins have to do with BL-
One of the members of Black Lotus decided that they need to speed up their plan and resorted to extreme and violent measures. He used the 'Black Lotus' name and hired outlaws to kill the king.
(This is the bad guy. The rest of BL is actually good as I'm sure you see by now. This is the one member on BL that Freeling kills)

What happens to Black Lotus-
They take power because the middle brother is next in line and begin to reform the government.

Why they assassinate the coordinator-
Now that Black Lotus is in power they must deal with Mythron's enemies as any good government does. Plus the coordinator is a wanted criminal! Since the outlaws are a big problem and are now coming together, that is naturally something they need to deal with. Since the assassins were outlaws before, they seem like the perfect squad for the job.

What happens next-
The coordinator is killed, but the other outlaws track down and destroy BL's assassins.

Outcome-
1. Black Lotus and the middle brother take power.
2. The bad guys are eliminated.
3. Mythron get a better government that includes a Citizens' House.
4. Sozo becomes the new coordinator.
5. In the time being Rhinos and Enalica drive out Mythron.

YES! Perfect! Everything is perfect!
Permalink
| October 6, 2013, 7:49 am
 Group admin 
Okay, I know this may sound crazy, but here it goes. I know we have all of our theries and options already set, but I wanted to add just one.

Freeling has been wanting to incoorperate magic a bit more, since it is apart of Mythron. What is the inner BL are sorcerers of some sort. And they are founded by the King's brother (whichever one is most evil). And he uses them to kill his brother so that he can have the throne. The BL support him because once he is the king, he will use a new type of battle strategy, they will use magic to conquer Rainos again.

I know, this is random, and probably not even a good idea, but I really like the idea of a really evil group of magicians who want to bring Mythron to power with Magic.
Permalink
| October 6, 2013, 7:57 am
 Group admin 
Aside from my other idea, these are the ones I like the most.

-Who are the Black Lotus?
The Black Lotus is a Mythronian secret society determined to end corruption in Mythron by clearing out the rot by force. They would rather see Sadon on the throne than Rowan, so they kill Rowan (the current high king).

-Why the BL will kill the king
Because they want the second brother to become king because he would be a better king.

-Who started the BL
The Black Lotus started themselves.

-What the BL is doing with its Outlaw recruits
Using the Outlaw Coordinator to do a bunch of assassinations of different town leaders of varying factions to instill fear and to create so much distraction that it would be hard for anyone to find out the "big plot" to kill the king.

-Exactly why the BL kills the coordinator, and what the
Because they are back-stabbers; claiming one thing, and then doing another.

-How the Mythronian High Princes fit into the plot, and which one becomes king.
The second brother becomes king (he is either saved by Freeling, or just comes to power with no hassle besides his older brother (the current king) was assassinated by the Black Lotus.
Permalink
| October 6, 2013, 8:00 am
 Group admin 
I was just thinking, in George Marshall's latest LOM build...he shows the king son. That would mean the son of the king would take the thrown, and probably be as corrupt as his father! So we might need to include his death as well as his fathers. Maybe something like a warning to the king that they're coming for.
Permalink
| October 6, 2013, 8:35 am
Quoting Brick Boy
I was just thinking, in George Marshall's latest LOM build...he shows the king son. That would mean the son of the king would take the thrown, and probably be as corrupt as his father! So we might need to include his death as well as his fathers. Maybe something like a warning to the king that they're coming for.

Or instead of killing the son, we just have the Black Lotus or the Middle Brother or whatever take control, and outlaw the Prince, not allowing him into the kingdom to claim his rightful throne. Then there would be this huge hullabaloo over the Prince and the new "King" fighting for the throne, eventually ending in the Prince taking his rightful place as King!

Just an idea...
Permalink
| October 6, 2013, 10:31 am
Quoting Brick Boy
I was just thinking, in George Marshall's latest LOM build...he shows the king son. That would mean the son of the king would take the thrown, and probably be as corrupt as his father! So we might need to include his death as well as his fathers. Maybe something like a warning to the king that they're coming for.

Or we pretend the High King has no son and carry on, minimizing the bloodshed. Maybe George's prince can be the prince of one of the provinces.
Permalink
| October 6, 2013, 10:40 am
Quoting Caleb of Enalica

-Why the BL will kill the king
Because they want the second brother to become king because he would be a better king.


I personally don't agree with this. I mean, if the King was really corrupt, don't you guys think that other Mythronians would notice? It seems to me only the enemies of Mythron believe he is corrupt. Maybe he is only corrupt in the eyes of the enemy? Maybe you only think he is corrupt because you don't like him?

All I am saying is that it is not fair for Mythron that the king is corrupt, because who would want to serve under someone like that? I think the Black Lotus should want the middle brother to become king because HE is in fact the one who is corrupt, but the Black Lotus and other outlaws do not see it because they are benefiting from the new king.

If the new king stays the new king, it wouldn't be great from any of us serving under Mythron right now. I mean, everyone is already against us. It's pretty hard to be us right now, and yet you guys are throwing another curveball to make it even harder for us to be apart of this faction. Give us a break for once! And yet you all wonder why we don't have much activity...
Permalink
| October 6, 2013, 10:42 am
Quoting George Marshall
I personally don't agree with this. I mean, if the King was really corrupt, don't you guys think that other Mythronians would notice? It seems to me only the enemies of Mythron believe he is corrupt. Maybe he is only corrupt in the eyes of the enemy? Maybe you only think he is corrupt because you don't like him?

All I am saying is that it is not fair for Mythron that the king is corrupt, because who would want to serve under someone like that? I think the Black Lotus should want the middle brother to become king because HE is in fact the one who is corrupt, but the Black Lotus and other outlaws do not see it because they are benefiting from the new king.

If the new king stays the new king, it wouldn't be great from any of us serving under Mythron right now. I mean, everyone is already against us. It's pretty hard to be us right now, and yet you guys are throwing another curveball to make it even harder for us to be apart of this faction. Give us a break for once! And yet you all wonder why we don't have much activity...

How's this: The king isn't so much corrupt as inactive (as we have seen by the amount of royal decrees in the past months), so some members of the government want to put hardworking, beloved Sadon on the throne. Once this is over, you get a shiny new government that everyone loves.
Permalink
| October 6, 2013, 10:59 am
I think all of these plans are good. Instead of arguing for or against one of them, does this compromise work?

Who is the Black Lotus?
- The Black Lotus is a political party in the Mythronian government that has been working to convince High King Rowan to step down in favor of his brother, Sadon, through peaceful means (like the Object of Legend suggested). The Black Lotus is their secret symbol, and they are shocked when it appears as the banner of a rebel movement.
The group of assassins known as the Black Lotus was rounded up by the third prince, Borin, who was tired of waiting on diplomacy. Borin will eventually try to kill Sadon as well.

Why does the Black Lotus kill the king?
- The political movement wants a peaceful resolution. Borin's assassins want their money and Borin wants to free a path between himself and the throne.

Who started the BL?
- Borin again.

Outcomes:
- The Black Lotus (the assassins with Freeling) kill King Rowan.
- Sadon survives an assassination attempt thanks to Freeling.
- The Black Lotus (assassins) are destroyed by Nerogue and the Outlaws, including Freeling.
- The Black Lotus (political party) follows Sadon to the throne and creates a Citizen's House.
-Borin is disgraced, is killed by an unknown assassin or continues to feign innocence.
Permalink
| October 6, 2013, 11:00 am
Quoting Gilbert Despathens
How's this: The king isn't so much corrupt as inactive (as we have seen by the amount of royal decrees in the past months), so some members of the government want to put hardworking, beloved Sadon on the throne. Once this is over, you get a shiny new government that everyone loves.

Sounds great to me! But how exactly would this benefit any of the other factions? If he was more active, wouldn't it be harder for outlaws to hide? Wouldn't it be harder for Rainos because of more organized attacks? Wouldn't it be harder for all other enemies of Mythron? It's fine by me.
Permalink
| October 6, 2013, 11:21 am
Quoting George Marshall
Sounds great to me! But how exactly would this benefit any of the other factions? If he was more active, wouldn't it be harder for outlaws to hide? Wouldn't it be harder for Rainos because of more organized attacks? Wouldn't it be harder for all other enemies of Mythron? It's fine by me.

It doesn't matter to us. A better king won't stop us from beating you in challenges. : )

By the way, how does my overview look to you?
Permalink
| October 6, 2013, 11:24 am
Quoting Gilbert Despathens
It doesn't matter to us. A better king won't stop us from beating you in challenges. : )

By the way, how does my overview look to you?

The overview looks great! You mentioned Nerogue sand the Outlaws, but what exactly will the other factions be doing at the time?
Permalink
| October 6, 2013, 12:28 pm
Quoting George Marshall
The overview looks great! You mentioned Nerogue sand the Outlaws, but what exactly will the other factions be doing at the time?

I'm planning on crossing that bridge when we come to it. Right now, the UC gives them something to do; next month, we'll add more events until we can do a second UC.
Permalink
| October 6, 2013, 12:41 pm
 Group admin 
Brick Boy thinks my thing is perfect, I obviously agree. So why do you guys thing it isn't. Lets look at those points and either validate them or throw them out so we'll be left with a single story. It doesn't have to be perfect it just has to explain why things happen.
Permalink
| October 6, 2013, 2:41 pm
 Group admin 
Quoting Gilbert Despathens Borin
Is there any parcticlar reason why you insist on bringing the youngest brother into this? I've tried to leave him out so that he can be used for other things later on and to streamline the story a little.
Permalink
| October 6, 2013, 2:44 pm
 Group admin 
Quoting Gilbert Despathens
I think all of these plans are good. Instead of arguing for or against one of them, does this compromise work?

Who is the Black Lotus?
- The Black Lotus is a political party in the Mythronian government that has been working to convince High King Rowan to step down in favor of his brother, Sadon, through peaceful means (like the Object of Legend suggested). The Black Lotus is their secret symbol, and they are shocked when it appears as the banner of a rebel movement.
The group of assassins known as the Black Lotus was rounded up by the third prince, Borin, who was tired of waiting on diplomacy. Borin will eventually try to kill Sadon as well.

Why does the Black Lotus kill the king?
- The political movement wants a peaceful resolution. Borin's assassins want their money and Borin wants to free a path between himself and the throne.

Who started the BL?
- Borin again.

Outcomes:
- The Black Lotus (the assassins with Freeling) kill King Rowan.
- Sadon survives an assassination attempt thanks to Freeling.
- The Black Lotus (assassins) are destroyed by Nerogue and the Outlaws, including Freeling.
- The Black Lotus (political party) follows Sadon to the throne and creates a Citizen's House.
-Borin is disgraced, is killed by an unknown assassin or continues to feign innocence.

Sorry Mr. Legend...but this is MUCh better! Finally Mythron is back on the road to justice:D
Permalink
| October 6, 2013, 3:42 pm
Quoting The Object of Legend
Quoting Gilbert Despathens Borin
Is there any parcticlar reason why you insist on bringing the youngest brother into this? I've tried to leave him out so that he can be used for other things later on and to streamline the story a little.

Borin is the main difference between our ideas, right? Let me write up the pros and cons of each version:

- Borin is not the villain.
-- Pros
+ Borin lives peacefully on, later to be used in another UC.
+ A major scandal is avoided in Mythron.
+ Finally and perhaps most importantly, the story could be less complicated or cumbersome.
-- Cons
- The princes are presented as a trio; this version ignores an important character.
- This eliminates the later plot to kill Sadon, which seems to be a well-liked development and a good way to end the second month of the Black Lotus saga.

-Borin is the villain.
-- Pros
+ The Black Lotus' purpose is explained more fully.
+ A major character is created.
+ A stronger motive (ambition) replaces other motives (impatience).
+ Borin's downfall, whether he flees to plan anew, remains at large in the court of Mythron, dies in mysterious circumstances or even goes to jail, gives a stronger foundation to build a later story onto.
-- Cons
- Borin, if murdered or possibly jailed, disappears as a character.
- The assassination turns into a scandal that may upset Mythronians.

The only other difference between the your foundation plan and my update, which made the current high king lazy rather than corrupt and evil, was made at George Marshall's behest for reasons that he explained in full.
Permalink
| October 6, 2013, 3:53 pm
Quoting Brick Boy
Sorry Mr. Legend...but this is MUCh better! Finally Mythron is back on the road to justice:D

Okay... With that overwhelming vote, might I suggest we ignore the Borin/no Borin debate and finalize the plan? We can minor alterations so that the original Black Lotus is mentioned as a governmental faction for good and then wrap up this part of the planning.
Permalink
| October 6, 2013, 3:56 pm
It looks like plan A, with nods from George Marshall and David TFNJ with emphatic support from Brick Boy and myself, is in the lead for the Origins and Intentions of the Black Lotus. Here it is restated, with two minor tweaks to satisfy all parties:

<><><><><><><><><><><><>

-Who is the Black Lotus?
The Black Lotus is a circle of elite mercenaries hired by Borin (the youngest prince of Mythron) to kill his older brothers.
There are two "Black Lotuses". One is the organization causing the current trouble. It took its name from a symbol used by the Mythronian politicians who actually do the work of the government combined with the name of a legendary organization whose mystic abilities may come into play at a later date.

-What do the Black Lotus say they are?
The Black Lotus changes its story based on who it is lying to, whether the listener is Freeling or another recruit. For example, if they are after a conscientious soldier, they tell him that they wish to end corruption and bring peace to the land. They spread rumors at random and stick to no official story.

-Why the BL will kill the king
They were hired by Borin (Borin the Betrayer - it has a nice ring to it).

-Who started the BL
The third brother. Later he will order the BL to try to kill the second brother, but they will fail. The third brother either remains unknown, or he runs away. Either way, he will be planning to strike again someday - or he will be killed by the original Black Lotus.

-How the Mythronian High Princes fit into the plot, and which one becomes king.
Borin, the third brother, organizes the Black Lotus and wants them to kill Rowan and Saldon to clear his way to the throne. When the BL fails to kill Saldon, the Borin either flees or is mysteriously found dead. Saldon is then crowned. Despite his flaws, namely lacking the drive and genius to be an excellent king, Rowan was not in any way corrupt or unjust when he was the High King.

<><><><><><><><><><><><>

The tweaks were a disclaimer protecting the name of High King Rowan and a second mentioning a political party that might possibly have reason to remove the High King who causes so much work for them, although they are too honorable to act against him (with the exception of Borin, of course). Let me know if there is a problem with either change and I will see if it should be removed.
Permalink
| October 6, 2013, 4:11 pm
 Group admin 
I agree with the last comment Gilbert wrote.
Permalink
| October 6, 2013, 5:50 pm
 Group admin 
Quoting Gilbert Despathens

Here are the problems I have with it.
1-Two Black Lotuses. This is a confusion nightmare.
2-Why the younger brother would plan the assassination of the middle brother as an afterthought. It seems childish, and will reflect that way on the story.
3-Lack of any worthwhile outcome for Mythron. No big government reform. How can you say that the king 'lacked drive' after he just made a bold attack on Rhinos?
4-Lack of motive to assassinate the coordinator.
5-Way too convoluted. I can't make head or tails of it, but maybe it's just me.

(The other option doesn't have these troubling issues.)

Quoting Gilbert Despathens -- Cons
- The princes are presented as a trio; this version ignores an important character.
- This eliminates the later plot to kill Sadon, which seems to be a well-liked development and a good way to end the second month of the Black Lotus saga.

These are Pros, the story is too messy as it is.

(I hope I don't sound pushy, if so I apologize sincerely)

Permalink
| October 6, 2013, 6:16 pm
Quoting The Object of Legend
Here are the problems I have with it.
1-Two Black Lotuses. This is a confusion nightmare.

Not necessarily. We have plenty of MOCs to explain it in - and it's supposed to be a little confusing because everything is so secretive.
Quoting The Object of Legend
2-Why the younger brother would plan the assassination of the middle brother as an afterthought. It seems childish, and will reflect that way on the story.

Good point. I've been considering that for a while, and my thought was that Borin planned both murders from the beginning, but kept both plans on a need-to-know basis for obvious reasons.
Quoting The Object of Legend
3-Lack of any worthwhile outcome for Mythron. No big government reform. How can you say that the king 'lacked drive' after he just made a bold attack on Rhinos?

Lack of worthwhile outcome? Brick Boy sounds enthusiastic, and he's the faction leader. And, yes, there is a little discrepancy over the king-lacked-drive part, but it puts a larger hole in your plan than in mine. Your government official would have stopped to reconsider at the king's invasion; Borin would not have.
Quoting The Object of Legend
4-Lack of motive to assassinate the coordinator.

Come on! We can think of something. I, for one, can think of several reasons that I will throw out later.
Quoting The Object of Legend
5-Way too convoluted. I can't make head or tails of it, but maybe it's just me.

(The other option doesn't have these troubling issues.)

Quoting Gilbert Despathens -- Cons
- The princes are presented as a trio; this version ignores an important character.
- This eliminates the later plot to kill Sadon, which seems to be a well-liked development and a good way to end the second month of the Black Lotus saga.

These are Pros, the story is too messy as it is.

In a two-month saga, we can afford to break the story gently.
Quoting The Object of Legend
(I hope I don't sound pushy, if so I apologize sincerely)

No worries. If so, I am sure that I am at least as guilty of stubbornness, and I offer you the same emphatic apology. However, it looks like the votes are cast, so let's move on.
Permalink
| October 6, 2013, 8:11 pm
Ok. This all sounds fantastic, and I don't want to complicate anything here, but what about the prince of the current High King that I included in my latest MOC? Should I just ignore him, and never mention him again, or what? I'll do whatever you think is best, just trying to clear up some confusion. Thanks!
Permalink
| October 6, 2013, 8:28 pm
Quoting George Marshall
Ok. This all sounds fantastic, and I don't want to complicate anything here, but what about the prince of the current High King that I included in my latest MOC? Should I just ignore him, and never mention him again, or what? I'll do whatever you think is best, just trying to clear up some confusion. Thanks!

You could ignore him or pass him off as the prince of one of the smaller kingdoms. It wouldn't be the first inexplicable jump - I started out with gunpowder, for example. I'm sorry that we all forgot about him until today.
Permalink
| October 6, 2013, 9:03 pm
Quoting Gilbert Despathens
You could ignore him or pass him off as the prince of one of the smaller kingdoms. It wouldn't be the first inexplicable jump - I started out with gunpowder, for example. I'm sorry that we all forgot about him until today.

Meh, I'll just ignore him. And no need to be sorry, he was an unimportant character in one small MOC of mine.
Permalink
| October 6, 2013, 9:08 pm
Quoting George Marshall
he was an unimportant character in one small MOC of mine.

Just in case you're being facetious (and it's not like you've ever done that before, so I apologize for this unfounded suspicion), it's up to you whether you want to do anything with him. There is always an explanation to be pulled out of the thin air.
Permalink
| October 6, 2013, 9:11 pm
Quoting Gilbert Despathens
Just in case you're being facetious (and it's not like you've ever done that before, so I apologize for this unfounded suspicion), it's up to you whether you want to do anything with him. There is always an explanation to be pulled out of the thin air.

I'm not being facetious. I don't know what it means, but I do know I'm not being it! I think...
Permalink
| October 6, 2013, 9:17 pm
Quoting George Marshall
I'm not being facetious. I don't know what it means, but I do know I'm not being it! I think...

It's kind of a mix between sarcasm and irony to my mind.
Permalink
| October 6, 2013, 9:36 pm
 Group admin 
Quoting George Marshall
I'm not being facetious. I don't know what it means, but I do know I'm not being it! I think...

DiC-TION-ARY

Permalink
| October 6, 2013, 10:03 pm
 Group admin 
Looks like this is pretty much sorted through. Sorry that I am always asleep when you guys discuss this =( stupid time zones
Permalink
| October 6, 2013, 10:19 pm
 Group admin 
Quoting Gilbert Despathens
So... It's convoluted and crazy but you don't care? You hear all the questions we get in the main group that we thought we were clear on, this is a confusion nightmare and will cause the rest of the group to lose interest because they'll think we messed up. We need to 'Whittle' it down like you said.
The other idea explains all this. Once the timeline of MOCs is remade it will be a 2-month saga no matter how you do it.
Permalink
| October 7, 2013, 6:35 am
Quoting The Object of Legend
Quoting Gilbert Despathens
So... It's convoluted and crazy but you don't care? You hear all the questions we get in the main group that we thought we were clear on, this is a confusion nightmare and will cause the rest of the group to lose interest because they'll think we messed up. We need to 'Whittle' it down like you said.
The other idea explains all this. Once the timeline of MOCs is remade it will be a 2-month saga no matter how you do it.

I think we should try it. The only parts that people have to understand are:

The High King has two brothers. The youngest brother started the BL to kill his older brothers so that he could become king. The High King is killed and the second brother survives. The youngest brother's plan fails.

All the rest is mostly to keep us and anyone else who CLOSELY follows the storyline happy.
Permalink
| October 7, 2013, 9:06 am
 Group admin 
Quoting Gilbert Despathens
All the rest is mostly to keep us and anyone else who CLOSELY follows the storyline happy.
I can agree with that. I still see more Cons than Pros going down this path.

The differences between your plan and mine comes down to this:

-Your Plan-
Black Lotus is bad, and fails.
Issues: More complicated, less outcome, no motive the kill the coordinator.

-My Plan-
Black Lotus is good, and succeeds.
Issues: Lack of entertainment appeal?
Permalink
| October 7, 2013, 3:47 pm
 Group admin 
Quoting The Object of Legend
Quoting Gilbert Despathens
All the rest is mostly to keep us and anyone else who CLOSELY follows the storyline happy.
I can agree with that. I still see more Cons than Pros going down this path.

The differences between your plan and mine comes down to this:

-Your Plan-
Black Lotus is bad, and fails.
Issues: More complicated, less outcome, no motive the kill the coordinator.

-My Plan-
Black Lotus is good, and succeeds.
Issues: Lack of entertainment appeal?

I'd add that with Gilbert's and my plan, the Black Lotus has a much better reason to kill the king - an inside conspiracy!

I think that if we can get a complicated story - most mysteries and murders are complicated.... - it would be so much more realistic and entertaining!

I think that with the Black Lotus being good, the BL doesn't have a very good reason for killing the king.

Permalink
| October 7, 2013, 3:55 pm
 Group admin 
Quoting David the Fire Ninja Jedi
I think that with the Black Lotus being good, the BL doesn't have a very good reason for killing the king.
In that story the king was corrupt and didn't listen to the common people. If you read history you see that this is the most common reason the the death of kings.

Permalink
| October 7, 2013, 4:56 pm
 Group admin 
Quoting David the Fire Ninja Jedi complicated.... - it would be so much more realistic and entertaining!
But this comes at the very high cost of plot holes and confusion.
I see I've lost this argument, but I must defend the merits of my storyline. Go on with the path you've chosen.
Permalink
| October 7, 2013, 5:03 pm
 Group admin 
Quoting The Object of Legend
Quoting David the Fire Ninja Jedi complicated.... - it would be so much more realistic and entertaining!
But this comes at the very high cost of plot holes and confusion.
I see I've lost this argument, but I must defend the merits of my storyline. Go on with the path you've chosen.

I still agree with you! I would enjoy the complexity of a story like Gilbert's idea...but it might be a bit hard to get out the general audiences.
Permalink
| October 7, 2013, 5:25 pm
 Group admin 
Hmmm. OoL has a point in that it is a lot more simple, and has less plot holes. But yet Gilbert and David have a much more entertaining story.

The problem I see with the G&D (Gilbert and David) story line is that it will take a lot of time and effort to pull off well. Would that be worth it?

I have noticed that a lot of times, audiences on MOCpages are too impatient for a good story. They have to have a good story in just a few short MOCs, and there can't be too much reading or they give up. I know this because I have over 100 story MOCs. I was one of the main writers on MOCpages for a while. These audiences have ADD. If you post a fracking paragraph of writing, they panic and just skip over it to the pictures. I find myself doing this at times even.

The point being, a complicated, thick plot, might not be a good thing.
Permalink
| October 7, 2013, 7:23 pm
 Group admin 
Quoting Caleb of Enalica
Hmmm. OoL has a point in that it is a lot more simple, and has less plot holes. But yet Gilbert and David have a much more entertaining story.

The problem I see with the G&D (Gilbert and David) story line is that it will take a lot of time and effort to pull off well. Would that be worth it?

I have noticed that a lot of times, audiences on MOCpages are too impatient for a good story. They have to have a good story in just a few short MOCs, and there can't be too much reading or they give up. I know this because I have over 100 story MOCs. I was one of the main writers on MOCpages for a while. These audiences have ADD. If you post a fracking paragraph of writing, they panic and just skip over it to the pictures. I find myself doing this at times even.

The point being, a complicated, thick plot, might not be a good thing.

You just spoke the pure truth man O.o
Permalink
| October 7, 2013, 7:49 pm
Quoting ~ Brick
You just spoke the pure truth man O.o

Okay - What should we do, wing it? Let's do that - we order the story MOCs and then each builder adds a little bit that the others have to deal with. Who wants to go first? Freeling, I think that's you.
Permalink
| October 7, 2013, 8:31 pm
 Group admin 
Quoting Gilbert Despathens
Okay - What should we do, wing it? Let's do that - we order the story MOCs and then each builder adds a little bit that the others have to deal with. Who wants to go first? Freeling, I think that's you.

Sarcasm?
Permalink
| October 7, 2013, 8:56 pm
Quoting Caleb of Enalica
Sarcasm?

No, actually, I've been thinking of a plan like that for a while. I think it could actually work, but everyone (myself included) became so wrapped up in planning due to all of the controversy. I think we should all do our UC entries, and those of us who have/want a role in the Black Lotus chronicle can join the story team.
Permalink
| October 7, 2013, 9:08 pm
 Group admin 
Quoting Gilbert Despathens
No, actually, I've been thinking of a plan like that for a while. I think it could actually work, but everyone (myself included) became so wrapped up in planning due to all of the controversy. I think we should all do our UC entries, and those of us who have/want a role in the Black Lotus chronicle can join the story team.

Hmm. Good. I am glad I could help. We need to keep it basic though, as I said before. And I think Winging it will be good. All of my series on MOCpages that I "winged" went extremely well. The ones I planned kinda failed.
Permalink
| October 7, 2013, 9:11 pm
 Group admin 
Quoting Gilbert Despathens
Okay - What should we do, wing it? Let's do that - we order the story MOCs and then each builder adds a little bit that the others have to deal with. Who wants to go first? Freeling, I think that's you.

I think we are fine with the big story - each part (MOC) only needs to convey the important action-packed information. Since there are a bunch of people involved, the story that goes along with each MOC doesn't have to be long at all. Short and sweet is what they say. I'm fine with we have the general outline of what we know is going to happen, and then the admins do other stuff with it. Any overlapping facts have to agree - any other little details are wide open for exploring.
Permalink
| October 8, 2013, 4:52 pm
 Group admin 
Quoting The Object of Legend
Quoting David the Fire Ninja Jedi
I think that with the Black Lotus being good, the BL doesn't have a very good reason for killing the king.
In that story the king was corrupt and didn't listen to the common people. If you read history you see that this is the most common reason the the death of kings.
True - which is why Freeling agreed to the first part of the plan.

Permalink
| October 8, 2013, 4:53 pm
 Group admin 
Quoting The Object of Legend
Quoting David the Fire Ninja Jedi complicated.... - it would be so much more realistic and entertaining!
But this comes at the very high cost of plot holes and confusion.
I see I've lost this argument, but I must defend the merits of my storyline. Go on with the path you've chosen.
I hope that when we post our MOCs that there won't be any plot holes (the only confusion being where is the next MOC in the story)

Permalink
| October 8, 2013, 4:54 pm
 Group admin 
When we post our MOCs, be sure to link to the next person who will be posting the next MOC of the story.
Permalink
| October 8, 2013, 4:54 pm
Quoting David the Fire Ninja Jedi
Quoting The Object of Legend
Quoting David the Fire Ninja Jedi complicated.... - it would be so much more realistic and entertaining!
But this comes at the very high cost of plot holes and confusion.
I see I've lost this argument, but I must defend the merits of my storyline. Go on with the path you've chosen.
I hope that when we post our MOCs that there won't be any plot holes (the only confusion being where is the next MOC in the story)

We can preview the text in here. Is there a way to upload a MOC so that only certain people can see it?
Permalink
| October 8, 2013, 6:24 pm
 Group admin 
Quoting Gilbert Despathens
We can preview the text in here. Is there a way to upload a MOC so that only certain people can see it?

Yes - upload all of your pictures and then add all of the text to the description. Preview the MOC to make sure it's all good, and instead of hitting "create MOC" or "submit" or whatever, copy all of the text in the description and then paste it on the homepage here. We can then review it quick, and then just paste all of it again when you go to actually add the creation.
Permalink
| October 9, 2013, 10:23 am
 Group admin 
Quoting David the Fire Ninja Jedi
Yes - upload all of your pictures and then add all of the text to the description. Preview the MOC to make sure it's all good, and instead of hitting "create MOC" or "submit" or whatever, copy all of the text in the description and then paste it on the homepage here. We can then review it quick, and then just paste all of it again when you go to actually add the creation.

Basically copy all the html and text of your creation and paste it into the homepage, of this staff group, right?
Permalink
| October 9, 2013, 11:12 am
 Group admin 
Quoting Caleb of Enalica
Basically copy all the html and text of your creation and paste it into the homepage, of this staff group, right?

Not exactly - the key is that you DON'T post it. Copy the HTML and don't post the creation.
Permalink
| October 9, 2013, 11:37 am
 Group admin 
Quoting David the Fire Ninja Jedi
Not exactly - the key is that you DON'T post it. Copy the HTML and don't post the creation.

That is what I meant, thanks for clarifying though. Hey, sorry this is off topic, but would you be interested in judging my 4x4 contest? 2 of my 3 judges appear to be inactive. I don't know for sure if I will need to boot them yet, but if you could consider it, that would be nice.
Permalink
| October 9, 2013, 11:40 am
 Group admin 
Quoting Caleb of Enalica
That is what I meant, thanks for clarifying though. Hey, sorry this is off topic, but would you be interested in judging my 4x4 contest? 2 of my 3 judges appear to be inactive. I don't know for sure if I will need to boot them yet, but if you could consider it, that would be nice.

Ah okay!

I'd be willing, yes :)
Permalink
| October 9, 2013, 12:00 pm
Quoting Caleb of Enalica
That is what I meant, thanks for clarifying though. Hey, sorry this is off topic, but would you be interested in judging my 4x4 contest? 2 of my 3 judges appear to be inactive. I don't know for sure if I will need to boot them yet, but if you could consider it, that would be nice.

I could help too, if you wanted. I haven't come up with an idea for my entry yet.
Permalink
| October 9, 2013, 12:24 pm
Quoting Gilbert Despathens
I could help too, if you wanted. I haven't come up with an idea for my entry yet.

I retract my offer - I think I ran into something good.
Permalink
| October 9, 2013, 10:30 pm
 Group admin 
Quoting David the Fire Ninja Jedi
Ah okay!

I'd be willing, yes :)

Awesome, once the round 1 deadline comes around, I'll give the other judges 2 days to be active, if they fail to be, I shall replace them with you =)
Permalink
| October 10, 2013, 9:42 pm
 Group admin 
Quoting Gilbert Despathens
I retract my offer - I think I ran into something good.

For an entry?
Permalink
| October 10, 2013, 9:43 pm
Quoting Caleb of Enalica
For an entry?

Yes. I took the pictures last night and I hope to post them tonight. I'm fairly confident that I'll pass round one.
Permalink
| October 11, 2013, 8:09 am
 Group admin 
Quoting Gilbert Despathens
Yes. I took the pictures last night and I hope to post them tonight. I'm fairly confident that I'll pass round one.

Glad to hear it! BTW what time zone are you in?
Permalink
| October 11, 2013, 9:27 am
 Group admin 
I'm not really sure what of this is true, and what of this is not. As I am done building my UC MOC, I need to take pictures. However, I need to know a lot about the BL before I can take them, because The Masked has to decide if he approves or not.


What is their primary goal aside from destroying Mythron? Is there one?

Who leads them?

Can The Masked have a conversation with their leader?

What can the BL offer for The Masked's help?
Permalink
| April 27, 2014, 2:00 pm
Quoting Caleb R.
I'm not really sure what of this is true, and what of this is not. As I am done building my UC MOC, I need to take pictures. However, I need to know a lot about the BL before I can take them, because The Masked has to decide if he approves or not.


What is their primary goal aside from destroying Mythron? Is there one?

Who leads them?

Can The Masked have a conversation with their leader?

What can the BL offer for The Masked's help?

These are the secrets known only to the Inner Council (Freeling's character excepted):
- The BL was established by Prince Borin to clear his path to the throne.
- The invasion of Mythron is to be broken as soon as Borin assumes the throne, making him into a beloved hero.
- The BL's supplies and secrets flow directly from Borin's power as a Mythronian royal.
- The Inner Council is made up of Borin; a handful of crack assassins, mages and warlords; and the misled Outlaw, Freeling, who they probably intend to use as a "fall guy"

These facts are not secret:
- The BL's forces believe they are ending tyranny in Mythron
- The BL supplies its followers with weapons, armor, provisions and the opportunity to join an organized war machine
- The BL uses fear as a weapon against Mythron
- Very few people see the Inner Council

To answer your other questions, I bet that someone as powerful as the Masked would be allowed to meet with at least one member of the Inner Council. They would offer supplies for his troops, more people to command and maybe even military aid if the Masked wishes for help ending any more corrupt officials after Mythron falls. Oh, and the Masked is also given a golden opportunity to make a fortune on plunder. That's more or less how they swayed some Rainosian warlords like Cedric the Bull, but I think that they would offer the Masked a better deal.
Permalink
| April 27, 2014, 2:19 pm
 Group admin 
Alright, thank you!

Also, if The Masked would not offer to help the BL unless he was 100% sure he could help them defeat Mythron. So, plot-wise I need to know if Mythron falls.

If the BL are successful, and they manage to get Borin into power, I'll side with them.

If they are not successful, well, that will be a lot more entertaining to watch >:D
Permalink
| April 27, 2014, 2:24 pm
Quoting Caleb R.
Alright, thank you!

Also, if The Masked would not offer to help the BL unless he was 100% sure he could help them defeat Mythron. So, plot-wise I need to know if Mythron falls.

If the BL are successful, and they manage to get Borin into power, I'll side with them.

If they are not successful, well, that will be a lot more entertaining to watch >:D

I think the original plan, which it looks like we're turning back to, was for the BL to be poised to win when their Inner Council is taken out. After the troops realize that they were being manipulated, many of them start to desert and Mythron breaks up the rest with its army. Basically, it will look like the BL is all-but-guaranteed victory until their council falls.
Permalink
| April 27, 2014, 2:29 pm
 Group admin 
Quoting Gilbert Despathens
I think the original plan, which it looks like we're turning back to, was for the BL to be poised to win when their Inner Council is taken out. After the troops realize that they were being manipulated, many of them start to desert and Mythron breaks up the rest with its army. Basically, it will look like the BL is all-but-guaranteed victory until their council falls.

Alright then. The Masked is going to oppose them then. I think the Black Lotus will think that The Masked is with them until the end.
Permalink
| April 27, 2014, 2:32 pm
Quoting Caleb R.
Alright then. The Masked is going to oppose them then. I think the Black Lotus will think that The Masked is with them until the end.

Ha ha, I suggested exactly that in another thread. That does sound like the Batman style.
Permalink
| April 27, 2014, 2:37 pm
 Group admin 
Quoting Gilbert Despathens
Ha ha, I suggested exactly that in another thread. That does sound like the Batman style.

I swear, I never even thought of Batman until people mentioned it :P
Permalink
| April 27, 2014, 2:42 pm
Other topics
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