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Round 5
 Group admin 
Welcome to the "Elite Eight" and round five of the 2012 MocOlympics! Below you will find your matchups with your opponent and your category.

First, I would like to address the issue that was brought up in round four. I won't go on and on about it I will only say this. From this point on, ONLY ONE MOC PER ENTRY unless it's needed for the category (say, for a story category or something along those lines). This rule is from now on (and will continue into the other games we host like the MocAthalon), only one moc per entry. Thank you.

Dates and Times:
Round two starts NOW and will end at 11:59 pm, MOCpages time Sunday, November 18th. No entries will be accepted after this time. If you do not have your entry posted AND added to the group by the deadline, you will forfeit your match and your opponent will advance.

Title:
Your entry must be titled: MocOlympics (may be shortened to MO) round 5 "you" vs "Your opponent." You may title it anything you wish after that but that must be the opening of the title.

Category description:
Near the TOP of the entry you must state what category you are playing in. Feel free to simply copy and paste your category from this thread or type in the title of the category, your choice.

Links:
Preferably near the top of your post, you MUST have a WORKING link to your opponent’s page. If you post first then linking to their homepage is fine. If you post second, please link to their entry. You do not HAVE to change the link to their entry after they post (if you post first) but you are welcome to change it after they post if you'd like. This is the ONLY change that may be made after adding an entry to the group. You do NOT have to have a working link back to the main MocOlympics group. You’re free to add it if you wish but it is NOT required.

You must add your entry to the group pool. Once you add it to the group, that's it, it's OURS and NO changes may be made. If you make a change and we find out about it, you will be disqualified and your opponent will advance to the next round. We STRONGLY suggest that you get feedback from others and make any needed changes BEFORE adding it to the group. The judges will NOT look at it until it's added to the group.

Once you and your opponent have posted and added your entries to the group, the judges will vote on the mocs.

NEW FOR THIS ROUND!
There will be SIX judges for each matchup. You must receive 4 out of 6 votes to advance to the next round. In the event of a tie, a 7th judge will be brought in to break the tie. The judges are NOT required to write full, detailed comments with their votes (but may if they choose to). The only thing required by a judge is which moc he’s voting for. Each judge’s decision is final.



Your judges are:
Chris Phipson, Paul Vermeesch, Sebeus I.,
Shannon Ocean, Chris Roach and Cody G.

And now, your categories and matchups for the Elite 8 and round 5!


Bracket 1

LWC Guy Vs Tom Remy
A certain point of view: Tell us an adventure story, but here's the twist. Tell us the story from the perspective of the villain! People aren't just "evil" for the sake of being evil (expect for Dr. Doofenschmirtz of course) so now's your chance to make us root for the bad guy! What's his motivation? What does he want? And why does he feel that his (evil) way is the only way to get it done? You may choose already existing fiction or create your own, the choice is yours.


Bracket 2

Mark Erickson vs Stu Delahay
Beginning and End: This is a rehash from a past category. Build us a story... any story you wish and whichever genre you want but here's the catch... it MUST begin and end with the following lines...

First line:
"My name is Archibald Reginold Snegglepusenshire, and this is the tale of my last day on Earth."

Last line:
"So the moral of the story kids, is never trust a clown in a bikini who offers you a banana."

It doesn't matter how long the story is. It could be three frames or 30, as long as you
begin and end with those lines AND (here's the tricky part) have it make SENSE!



Bracket 3

George G. vs Sir Balamorgineas
AvP Universe: We’re all familiar with the Alien and Predator movies/comics/novels and so on. Here’s your task, build us something from that Universe. It does NOT have to include an alien or predator (it can if you wish) but it must be something that could be set in that universe. Anything from an Alien Hive to a microscale version of “The Betty” (the pirate ship from Alien: Resurrection). The choice is yours.


Bracket 4

Legopard vs Heath Flor
Robot Jox: Your job is to create two robots (with pilots)in a knock down, drag out fight to the finish in gladiatorial style combat. This idea is inspired by (Read: stolen) the 1990 cult classic, Robot Jox http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robot_Jox (man I loved that movie). Consider this a “mech” type category so no microscale please. Your arena does NOT have to be a full scale "thing" with a FULL crowd and stands and all that (that would be asking WAY too much of some collections) but some sort of “battle area” must be built.



And that's it. Good luck everyone!

Permalink
| November 8, 2012, 5:50 pm
Ok, I just LOVE all those categories! I just have a little preference for the three I don't get, but whatever ;) Let's do it!
Permalink
| November 8, 2012, 6:07 pm
Oh yes. Mad as a bag of frogs. Pity its nearly midnight because i want to get on with this. I assume the story nature of this category allows multiple builds but please let me know if not. I've already got a great idea....
Permalink
| November 8, 2012, 6:16 pm
Quoting Stuart Delahay
Oh yes. Mad as a bag of frogs. Pity its nearly midnight because i want to get on with this. I assume the story nature of this category allows multiple builds but please let me know if not. I've already got a great idea....

This category has you written all over it. Can't wait to see what you pull out of the bag.
Permalink
| November 8, 2012, 6:30 pm
Quoting Stuart Delahay
Oh yes. Mad as a bag of frogs. Pity its nearly midnight because i want to get on with this. I assume the story nature of this category allows multiple builds but please let me know if not. I've already got a great idea....

That category was meant for you :D I would have killed for AvP though... Well it's almost 1 AM here, so good night everybody! Dreaming of bad guys...
Permalink
| November 8, 2012, 6:31 pm
First of all, awesome categories! I can't wait to get started!

Second of all, thanks judges, you guys are epic! I just realized that you've been working hard at this for two months so far, and it's not even over!

Third of all, good luck Tom! Can't wait to see what you come up with :)

Fourth of all, (pant, pant) Bah, humbug. My family and I are going down south on Tuesday (Monday for those of you in the land of the Americese) to Queenstown (some of you LOTR junkies might have heard of it) for a holiday, which I means I have *maths* three days to build. I guess the upside of that is that it's the weekend!
Permalink
| November 8, 2012, 8:14 pm
Contest data chart has been updated to include the new rd 5 categories. I didn't start a new page, so it's still at the last location.

http://mocpages.com/moc.php/345901
Permalink
| November 8, 2012, 11:18 pm
Oh no, never watched any Alien OR Predator films :( I know how cool the Universe is though so I'm happy! Good luck Sir B. :)
Permalink
| November 9, 2012, 2:17 am
Quoting Topsy Creatori(StoveTop nomore!)
Contest data chart has been updated to include the new rd 5 categories. I didn't start a new page, so it's still at the last location.

http://mocpages.com/moc.php/345901

Thanks for continuing to do this, it's really good of you!
Permalink
| November 9, 2012, 4:48 am
Quoting George G.
Oh no, never watched any Alien OR Predator films :( I know how cool the Universe is though so I'm happy! Good luck Sir B. :)


You sir, have quite the education ahead of you!

Permalink
| November 9, 2012, 5:10 am
And of course, good luck to you again LWC! I'm sincerely very eager to see your creation too! And you can call me Tom ;)
Permalink
| November 9, 2012, 7:12 am
These are some fantastic categories! I love the story one, Leda pulled it off fantasticly last year now it's Mark and Stuart's turn! Good luck to you guys! Mark, your my friend, i have faith you can beat out Stuart! Staurt, this category was made for you, i'm positive you won't disappoint!
Good luck to all!!
Permalink
| November 9, 2012, 10:13 am
I want to apologize Legopard, apparently my horrible luck has cursed me with all of the categories I'm weakest at. I hope this doesn't effect you too much, and are able to build an amazing entry.

I'll be away on business next week and have an anniversary to attend to this weekend, so hold the fort down while I'm gone!
Permalink
| November 9, 2012, 11:38 am
Quoting LWC guy
First of all, awesome categories! I can't wait to get started!

Second of all, thanks judges, you guys are epic! I just realized that you've been working hard at this for two months so far, and it's not even over!

Third of all, good luck Tom! Can't wait to see what you come up with :)

Fourth of all, (pant, pant) Bah, humbug. My family and I are going down south on Tuesday (Monday for those of you in the land of the Americese) to Queenstown (some of you LOTR junkies might have heard of it) for a holiday, which I means I have *maths* three days to build. I guess the upside of that is that it's the weekend!

wow, you got an awesome category!

best of luck, I hope you can pull something off in those 3 days!
Permalink
| November 9, 2012, 1:13 pm
Dear MocOlympics,

First of all, I have very much enjoyed participating in my very first MocOlympics. It's been nice to meet new people and lots of great builders on this site that I never knew of before. And it is an honor to be one of the Elite Eight.

Unfortunately... the category I have been placed in is far below the standards I've come to expect from this contest. This sort of thing is something I would never feel comfortable building.
In my opinion, this category detracts from the art which is LEGO-MOC-ing, it's degrading to our hobby. The first half of this category would have been all right, if silly, but the latter half is not only extremely foolish, it is in stark contrast to my own personal convictions. Being assigned to building "H.E Double hockey-sticks" was bad enough, but I don't even feel comfortable talking about clowns in bikinis, much less building it. This is utter foolishness, and I can not make "sense" out of it.

I would heartily suggest you reconsider your category choices next time.

I would also like to state that it's not about my opponent. I really was looking forward to facing Stuart in a decent category.

Again, I have enjoyed being a part of this fun contest. But I believe the time has come for me to bow out.

Thanks,

~Mark
Permalink
| November 9, 2012, 5:16 pm
Quoting Mark Erickson

And THAT, gentlemen, is taking a stand on something you believe.

Respects Mark. You once again distinguish yourself a head and shoulders above everyone else, not only for your building talent, but also for your character. You just won this competition in my eyes.
Permalink
| November 9, 2012, 5:28 pm
Quoting Mark Erickson

Mark, you've done fantastic in this competition and it's a true pity to see you bow out on the grounds of a category. While I see where you're coming from, I hope you realize that the judges do not intend it as offensive and it is merely a light-hearted and jesting category. I personally believe that a large part of MOCpages is about integrating (sometimes silly) humour into your posts, and the page layout is optimal for this kind of function. However, if you truly find clowns in bikinis to be an insurmountable ethical obstacle, than I can only wish you best of luck in the CCCX. Well done on getting this far, and I hope that you can come to terms with an innocently fun category and maybe even get farther.
Permalink
| November 9, 2012, 5:43 pm
I agree with standing up for what you believe in, but I think you should pull through. Often times you have to do something you're not comfortable with in order to achieve something greater. If you don't want to do it for yourself, do it for everyone else here who is cheering you on. You can leave now and be comfortable with your decision for a short while. But if you do, you will never know what could've been.
Permalink
| November 9, 2012, 5:46 pm
Quoting Mark Erickson

Mark, my respect for you just rocketed even further. I fully echo what Blake has stated, and as he's a highly respected member of the community, I'm very glad he said something. For what it's worth, you've got my support in this too. At the same time, I believe the category was only meant to be humorous in asking you to connect two ridiculously random things, but if it's seriously against your conscience, you are right in refusing to build it. Perhaps the judges will change the subject matter, but if not, it's been awesome watching you play this year.
Permalink
| November 9, 2012, 5:50 pm
 Group admin 
Quoting Mark Erickson
Dear MocOlympics,



If that's truly your reason for bowing out (and if Stu agrees of course) we did have a number of "lines" that were available and that's what we ended up on. Ian is correct in that it was simply trying to find two completely random things to go together and make you find a way to make it work.

I don't have an issue changing the lines (again, if stu agrees... it's his category too), it's the concept that we're after.

If you had other reasons for not wanting to continue then please let us know and we'll allow Stu to continue with this one.

I won't be on the computer tomorrow but I will authorize the other judges to change the lines in my stead so you guys can get started right away.

If not, it's been a true pleasure seeing your contributions to this contest. Let us know either way.

~Chris.
Permalink
| November 9, 2012, 6:01 pm
Quoting Chris Phipson

If that's truly your reason for bowing out (and if Stu agrees of course) we did have a number of "lines" that were available.... Let us know either way.

~Chris.

I think the wisest/kindest solution to all of this would be to offer the empty slot to Max Pointner!
Permalink
| November 9, 2012, 6:27 pm
Quoting Chris Phipson

If that's truly your reason for bowing out (and if Stu agrees of course) we did have a number of "lines" that were available and that's what we ended up on. Ian is correct in that it was simply trying to find two completely random things to go together and make you find a way to make it work.

I don't have an issue changing the lines (again, if stu agrees... it's his category too), it's the concept that we're after.

If you had other reasons for not wanting to continue then please let us know and we'll allow Stu to continue with this one.

I won't be on the computer tomorrow but I will authorize the other judges to change the lines in my stead so you guys can get started right away.

If not, it's been a true pleasure seeing your contributions to this contest. Let us know either way.

~Chris.


Hey Chris,

That definitely puts a twist on things.
Put simply, I will not build vulgar things, I don't have a problem with the concept at all. I think it's a neat idea, but it's the content that I disagree with.

If you could simply change the second line that would be great for me. :)

As you said, If Stu is good with it, then I'd be very happy to continue! I really appreciate you being workable and willing to change.



Permalink
| November 9, 2012, 6:57 pm
Dear all,

Sorry if I now come across as the villain in this piece, but having spent all evening building (it’s way after 1am here) and a lot of time earlier in the day and last night drafting a story that I’m really pleased with then no, I’m not now prepared to hit the reset button based on someone else’s personal decision.

Mark, I find it somewhat confusing that the mention of a clown in a bikini offering a banana is enough to make you give up on a contest you’ve competed hard in for the last two months. I don’t want to and won’t get into a debate based on your personal convictions and how they affect your decision-making as I simply don’t know you outside of your online comments and I have to respect your choice if you feel that strongly.

I will say I am impressed that you would stand up for your beliefs, but I’m disappointed at the outcome. I don’t personally perceive this as vulgar or distasteful at all. Certainly not degrading to our hobby. Bizarre, yes. Silly, absolutely. Perhaps a little suggestive IF you wanted to interpret it that way but nobody is twisting your arm to do that. I have not.

I think the fact that all of the judges saw fit to post this category and use these particular lines means they in no way intended to offend or cause any discomfort. I’ve competed in three MOCOlympics now and seen some very straight-forward categories and some which force the builder to really work hard with the subject matter to find a build they are happy creating and putting their name to. It would be all too easy if you could guarantee a category you enjoyed or excelled in each round but that is part of the unique challenge of this contest and something everyone should be aware of when entering – certainly by the quarter-finals.

If you simply cannot find a way to work around this in a way that you are happy with then I respect your decision to withdraw and I will continue to build and post for this round to satisfy the rules. It would be disingenuous of me to do anything else – I know I come across online as light-hearted, comedic and flippant but I too have convictions and one of those is following through on commitments I have made.

Permalink
| November 9, 2012, 8:14 pm
Bikinis aren't vulgar dude. Clowns on the other hand....

Obviously the judges don't want you to build something vulgar, you're the one flipping it. Dirty birdy!
Permalink
| November 9, 2012, 8:14 pm
 Group admin 
Okay guys. I haven't discussed this with the other judges yet, but this is my solution that I hope will allow Mark to start building as soon as possible. First, Mark, I really respect your decision here. Your willingness to give up the competition over a topic that goes contrary to your moral compass is a true indication of the strength of your beliefs. For this, I commend you, and I only wish I had spoken to Chris about this before these categories went public.
My solution is this: We will allow Stu to continue building with the current closing line, but we will change the closing line for Mark. Because of the nature of the category, this will not compromise fairness, and the MOCs will still be able to be judged based on build quality and coherence.
Stu and Mark, if you could reply as soon as possible if this solution is adequate, I will change the ending line for Mark to one of the other ones we judges had discussed. Let me know!
Permalink
| November 9, 2012, 11:16 pm
It seems ridiculous to judge two different closings. It is no longer a comparison. Also, couldn't Mark potentially disagree with that one as well and keep going until he gets a line he wants? I hate to be cynical, but since that is already the case with what I would only call a goofy closing line, I could certainly see it happening again. Just my unimportant $.02.
Permalink
| November 9, 2012, 11:43 pm
No, no and NO! I'm really starting to question your ability to judge this competition without being biased Paul. You flip-flop like a pair of sandals son.
Permalink
| November 10, 2012, 1:05 am
First question: Where does it say that the clown can't be female? Right, nowhere.
Second question: Is a woman in a bikini vulgar? Not since 1970.
Third question: Is a woman distateful when she gives away food? I've always been happy when my mother gave me something to eat.

My point is this: It is up to the contestant to create either a tasteful or a distasteful story within the rules. This could also be a drama or a romantic story and it doesn't have to be vulgar.

Sorry, but standing up for something that doesn't even exist, doesn't earn my respect.

Changing the rules this time means they can be changed in the future whenever a contestant doesn't like his or her category. That is not a contest anymore.
And it also doesn't work in real life.
Permalink
| November 10, 2012, 2:10 am
Quoting Paul Vermeesch
Okay guys. I haven't discussed this with the other judges yet, but this is my solution that I hope will allow Mark to start building as soon as possible. First, Mark, I really respect your decision here. Your willingness to give up the competition over a topic that goes contrary to your moral compass is a true indication of the strength of your beliefs. For this, I commend you, and I only wish I had spoken to Chris about this before these categories went public.
My solution is this: We will allow Stu to continue building with the current closing line, but we will change the closing line for Mark. Because of the nature of the category, this will not compromise fairness, and the MOCs will still be able to be judged based on build quality and coherence.
Stu and Mark, if you could reply as soon as possible if this solution is adequate, I will change the ending line for Mark to one of the other ones we judges had discussed. Let me know!

I agree with Stu, Tyler and Thor on this one.

I've been a Christian for some 23years, there is nothing suggestive in the material of the original ending line - the story in between is how you make the start gel up with the end. If a competitor can't find a non-vulgar way to do that then that is a dis-credit to their own imagination, and that in itself is a dis-credit to the hobby. Forcing people to be imaginative is the nature of this game.

Mark, you turned a dark twisted world into a scene showing Good conquering Evil. I'm sure given a little effort you can do a clean story line with this category too. I would gladly like to be in the top eight - but you are the one there - don't let a lack of imagination take the respect you have earned away from you.

I share the same faith as you, the same conviction as you, nothing about this category screams "build us a MOC depicting wickedness". That is your own interpretation, and one that I don't see as a viable reason for changing the category.
Permalink
| November 10, 2012, 3:07 am
This is all somewhat bizarre. The only 'vulgar' things in the category are in Mark's head. It's fun, treat it like that! It's deeply unfair to move the goalposts when Stu has already been building - I'd be in favour of Topsy's idea if Mark still doesn't want to get his head around it.
Permalink
| November 10, 2012, 3:14 am
The irony is that the two ends of the narrative are so ridiculous that they are almost infinitely open to interpretation. The task is as I see it anything but vulgar, rather a chance to see if the contestant can match their building ingenuity with narrative invention. I'd give the example of the greys' experiment topic Stu and I competed on last round. That topic had a natural inclination towards humour, but it was entirely possible to take my build a completely different way - which I did. In this case, if I had faced Stu in this round I would have done the same, and subverted the task to my aims - thinking about it last night I would have taken the challenge down a dark post-apoc route, with the clown as a sort of Clockwork Orange Droog set in Cormac McCarthy's world of The Road, presented rather like a Max Beckmann tryptych, with an anti-war message. My advice would be to subvert the category, and make your protest through the build rather than withdrawal - art is a great communicator after all.
Permalink
| November 10, 2012, 3:57 am
Thanks for the input everybody. i'd like to draw a line under this as it's starting to affect my enjoyment and opinion of the whole contest, something I have been waiting months for. I refuse to be the villain for following the rules.

I made my position on this quite clear in my last post and it hasn't changed. I will vehemently oppose any changes to the category as I have certainly been directed in the flavour of my whole build and story by that closing line and I do not find it necessary to change it. With a bit of imagination it could be taken many different ways, none of which need be offensive,vulgar or degrading.

It is up to Mark to determine whether he can find a way to work around it and compete within the given category or withdraw if he feels he cannot. I will respect his decision either way and wish him the best of luck.
Permalink
| November 10, 2012, 7:40 am
I agree with Xenumurphy particularly. I find it disrespectful and close-minded to immediately dismiss the category as sinful and a "disgrace" without even attempting to think of something that would not go against your anti-bikini-wearing clown beliefs.
Permalink
| November 10, 2012, 9:40 am
Gentlemen, keep in mind you are interpreting and judging Mark's convictions. Almost all of you have slapped him in the face verbally.

Have some courtesy to respect Mark's convictions.
Permalink
| November 10, 2012, 9:47 am
Quoting Blake Baer

Have some courtesy to respect Mark's convictions.

No discourtesy was intended, and I'm sure someone of Mark's undoubted talent can respect the principle of fair play.
Permalink
| November 10, 2012, 10:28 am
I totally disagree with Blake, all due respect. I can't find any comment judging Mark's conviction nor slapping him in the face. Maybe some are pointing out a lack of imagination, not a big outrage. I also thoroughly agree with the fact that you can and MUST twist the categories to match your ideas. I won't go into a debate on this particular matter because 1) I don't know him except through his comments and 2) I totally respect Mark's faith and will ewqually respect his final decision , whether he chooses to build or to withdraw. It's not a matter of beliefs or conscience, it's a matter of complying to the rules and pushing our imaginations further than we would have done outside of this contest. I'm having DEEP troubles with my category for very different reasons, so I have been pondering on it since 2 days and haven't put two bricks together yet. But whatever may be the reasons why I'm in trouble, I won't ask for a change in the rules, nor would I accept it. I'm sure Chris's and Paul's propositions were only an attempt to arrange things, but I think they're both wrong proposing a change in the rules (that's my humble opinion). Even if Stu agreed on changing the end line, that wouldn't be fair to the other competitors. To end on a lighter note, I'll say: Go Mark! Show us you can build whatever you want and still stay true to your conviction while being in the category! --Tom--
Permalink
| November 10, 2012, 10:35 am
Oh and in the case of a withdraw, I second the proposition to allow Max to compete. Anyway, whatever the judges' decision is, I'll continue with this contest until I'm knocked out. But if you were to change the rules, You will certainly lose a bit of respect as judges. And I think I'm not the only one to think so.
Permalink
| November 10, 2012, 10:50 am
Quoting Tom Remy
Oh and in the case of a withdraw, I second the proposition to allow Max to compete. Anyway, whatever the judges' decision is, I'll continue with this contest until I'm knocked out. But if you were to change the rules, You will certainly lose a bit of respect as judges. And I think I'm not the only one to think so.

Why Max over any other contestant? Entry drama doesn't automatically grant a second chance. If Mark withdraws, Stu moves on. That has always and should always be the case in MocOlympics withdrawals.
Permalink
| November 10, 2012, 11:09 am
Quoting Tyler Halliwell
Why Max over any other contestant? Entry drama doesn't automatically grant a second chance. If Mark withdraws, Stu moves on. That has always and should always be the case in MocOlympics withdrawals.

Ok, you sure know the rules better. It's my first MO so I'm not entirely familiar with the case. That was just a suggestion from someone without experience... I don't want to offend anyone, on the contrary! I just want this settled right so we can all enjoy the GAMES!
Permalink
| November 10, 2012, 11:14 am
Quoting Tom Remy
Ok, you sure know the rules better. It's my first MO so I'm not entirely familiar with the case. That was just a suggestion from someone without experience...

Sorry, I didn't mean to sound so rude about that. No offense to your opinion. I was just stating what I had learned from past withdrawals.

Permalink
| November 10, 2012, 11:17 am
If I may add my two cents here? I see good arguments all around here and respect all of them worded carefully with good thought. It strikes me particulary that most of the cathegories in this round are storytelling ones and if I were to be still running, I'd be in trouble too.

If I may carefully state this is a building contest, not a writing one. I'm a great believer of this contest and it sprung some of my best creations in themes I would not have imagined myself. And thank you for that. But if you're no good in telling stories, I feel no convincing creations can come from that. From that point of view, I follow Mark, whatever his "beliefs" are. Can anybody follow me here? I hate to be misunderstood, English is not my native language.

I really hope this comes to a satisfactory solution to both parties? With respect; it's only Lego, it's only a contest and there's always life beyond that.
Permalink
| November 10, 2012, 12:03 pm
Quoting Tyler Halliwell
...Stu moves on. That has always and should always be the case in MocOlympics withdrawals.

I salute you, Tyler, for your judicious comments! :)
Permalink
| November 10, 2012, 12:04 pm
Quoting Paul Vermeesch
Okay guys. I haven't discussed this with the other judges yet, but this is my solution that I hope will allow Mark to start building as soon as possible. First, Mark, I really respect your decision here. Your willingness to give up the competition over a topic that goes contrary to your moral compass is a true indication of the strength of your beliefs. For this, I commend you, and I only wish I had spoken to Chris about this before these categories went public.
My solution is this: We will allow Stu to continue building with the current closing line, but we will change the closing line for Mark. Because of the nature of the category, this will not compromise fairness, and the MOCs will still be able to be judged based on build quality and coherence.
Stu and Mark, if you could reply as soon as possible if this solution is adequate, I will change the ending line for Mark to one of the other ones we judges had discussed. Let me know!


Thank you Paul for your attempt at a solution, but I will not be building anything more in the 2012 MocOlympics.
I want to thank you and Chris again for being workable.


Permalink
| November 10, 2012, 12:42 pm
Quoting Giovanni & Lennaert Seynhaeve
If I may carefully state this is a building contest, not a writing one. I'm a great believer of this contest and it sprung some of my best creations in themes I would not have imagined myself. And thank you for that. But if you're no good in telling stories, I feel no convincing creations can come from that. From that point of view, I follow Mark, whatever his "beliefs" are. Can anybody follow me here? I hate to be misunderstood, English is not my native language.

That's a really good point, I hadn't considered that. However, I believe that while story does play a part in this category, the match will be decided by the creations as long as the storyline makes sense and fits the category. In my experience with these kinds of competitions, a good story can improve your odds a little, but even a poet laureate would be defeated by a masterful builder who has some command over the english language. That said, your comment about second languages has really got me thinking, and is a point which I feel should be reflected on and perhaps rules for this type of category should be elaborated to better reflect that the MOC itself takes precedence over writing. In any case, I don't think that Mark's issue really has anything to do with an inability to write, as he seems literate enough in his comments and creative enough in his MOCs.
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| November 10, 2012, 1:59 pm
Quoting Mark Erickson

Thank you Paul for your attempt at a solution, but I will not be building anything more in the 2012 MocOlympics.
I want to thank you and Chris again for being workable.



I wouldn't thank Paul at all. He clearly admits he didn't object to it prior to the categories being posted. He's only been fueling controversy wherever he gets a chance.

I just want to say to all of you kids cheering this mess on, that have no idea what to stand up for and your convictions are completely misplaced. In fact my Bulldog has more convictions then you, and all he does is eat, sleep, and shti.

There Blake...NOW I've "Slapped (you all) in the face verbally" for your so-called "convictions". It's going to be a real upsetting experience for Mark during his first visit to a Circus with a team of synchronized swimming clowns...isn't it?
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| November 10, 2012, 2:56 pm
Oi, let's all respect Mark's decision whether we agree with it or not.
Mark, I do believe you were a little too over dramatic, and that simply saying you would have to bow out of the contest for personal reasons would have made this whole thing simpler.
While we should respect you and you're beliefs, you should also respect those who find the category no more than harmless fun.

(Personally I think the category sounds like a ball, and would have loved to see someone do a How I Met your Mother spoof with it :P)
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| November 10, 2012, 3:25 pm
My two cents: I think that Mark is wise, bold, and deserves a bit more respect than he has been reaping. Were I competing, I would object to the category as well. As a teenaged Christian, I don't see how a clown in a bikini is true, noble, right, pure, lovely, admirable, excellent or praiseworthy (Phill. 4:8). AND don't therefore believe it should be fodder for MOCs, especially for a Christian at my age. Regardless about my views on the category, Mark has made a stand on his views and that should be the end of it. I am not blaming anyone here, but I think Mark should be treated as the mature TFOL that he is and that a bit of tolerance should be shown towards those who support him. Besides, the MocPages rules clearly state that any comments hounding someones views are stirctly prohibited and punishable in regards to one's account (if you've ever moderated a comment in a group, you know this to be true).


So THIS is what happens when Phipson is out for the day? Pleasant.
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| November 10, 2012, 3:35 pm
I think all this shows what a great community MOCpages is. ^ On any other website this discussion wouldn't be a discussion, it would be a flame war. It would be full of name calling, insults and everything, but here you all write long comments stating you opinions on the issue, true gents eh mate.
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| November 10, 2012, 3:39 pm
Quoting Ru Corder
Mark, I do believe you were a little too over dramatic, and that simply saying you would have to bow out of the contest for personal reasons would have made this whole thing simpler.
While we should respect you and you're beliefs, you should also respect those who find the category no more than harmless fun.


My thoughts exactly Ru!
Now let us all be gentlemen and respect Mark's decision no matter what your opinion of it is.

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| November 10, 2012, 3:54 pm
Quoting Max Pointner
... As a teenaged Christian, I don't see how a clown in a bikini is true, noble, right, pure, lovely, admirable, excellent or praiseworthy (Phill. 4:8). ...

I don't think clowns or bikinis already existed when the bible was written.
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| November 10, 2012, 3:56 pm
Regardless of my opinions, beliefs, and personal desires, I would like to bring up one little thing which I find puzzling. It seems that the majority of people who have issue with the category are Christian (which I am as well), and that their problem lies with the scanty dress of a bikini. However, in the Bible, I believe that it was God's will that humanity be unclad, and the fact that Adam and Eve chose to wear leaves was something of a religious transgression. Therefore, should you not support this category for its inclusion of less coverage? Correct me if I'm wrong, but if not then the category detractors are actually hypocrites of their religion and morals. That said, it's an honest mistake, and the Bible does seem to have many conflicting ideas so I can see how this argument came to be.
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| November 10, 2012, 4:05 pm
I hate to keep slashing at a wound, but I have stuff to say I just cannot keep in. I actually joined the group just now to say this uber comment.

Mark, you have made it to Round 5, the Elite Eight, and you have done so well as a first time competitor which is a lot further than I have ever gone as I have never entered a MocOlympics Competition. You have come too far to just quit. I don't know what is so wrong about bikinis, bananas, clowns, or a combination of them, but I cannot believe you are willing to quit so easily. I know you didn't like H. E. Double-Hockey Sticks, but because you were given an idea to do something with the category, you were able to continue. You cannot be so stubborn to just stop.

I am a Christian, just as you are, most likely not the same denomination, but I am not trying to attack what you believe, but I must say I think you are treating this category to be the most unholy thing, which is totally blown out of proportion. If Lego did not make Torsos and Legs with printings of a bikini, and heads with clown faces printed on, and Lego did not make them compatible, then this category would be quite difficult. If you do not have either of them, I can see it being difficult but you could still do it.

You are treating this as if it is your reputation being crushed. Or as if God is going to disown you or something. You are not running out in public in a ballerina tutu singing "I'm a Little Teapot." You are not blaspheming against God. You are building with Lego, something you have been given a talent with. You can do it, and still feel okay. You built He// for this competition man, which you have said you didn’t like doing, but the one thing that is going to stop you is a made-up clown in female swimwear offering you a yellow herb. Come on.

To push my point along further, had this been a final four category, would you still have quit? I know I wouldn't have, not that close, not even this round, or even the last round. You have gained so much respect as a builder from so many because of this competition. People have quit before, as you have seen, but it is because they were lazy, overworked, had a family crisis or natural disasters. The people who were lazy lost respect, the people who felt overworked and never entered their entry lost respect, but the people who were quitting for natural disasters or a family crisis retained respect because those things mattered more than bricks. The others could have at least tried to continue on which is what you are not doing. You may gain respect from those who like that you stand up for what you believe in, but I think you will lose a lot more respect for not even trying.

Now, you have already said you have quit, but that does not become official until the round is complete. While you are saying you are done, your brain is still trying to figure out what to do until that time is up, and probably even after if you don't do anything. It is even thinking while the rest of your body is asleep. Here is a scenario. Say you finally think of something despite saying you have already quit. Now, what if it is Friday Night or even Saturday Morning or even later? You now have the idea, but because you keep trying not to think of something and keeping your brain distracted, you are now way behind when Stu here has already completed most if not all of his entry and posted it. You will be kicking yourself for not doing a thing to at least lose with the honor of competing and getting as far as was permitted by the judges. You have the skills to make something work, you just need to do it.

I think that you are brave for sticking up for what you believe, but just quitting because you don't think it is appropriate doesn't mean you won't be forgiven. Besides, you have already been told by many that there are more ways to complete the categories challenge, and it was never intended to be disrespectful. This competition is to share the talents and imaginations of all who enter it, not attack everyone's beliefs or standards. It was all predetermined for each round before anyone was even signed up. It’s not like they are trying to torture people with categories that are supposed to be really challenging to them.

And although I may seem to be a really mean guy, I am trying my hardest to not sound vicious. But please, just build the Dang Entry MAN! The story doesn't have to be totally insane and against what you believe; it just has to be done. You have a family full of ideas to help you, and you have the skills to create something great. Give Stu a challenge like all of your other opponents!
Permalink
| November 10, 2012, 4:19 pm
Quoting LWC guy
I think all this shows what a great community MOCpages is. ^ On any other website this discussion wouldn't be a discussion, it would be a flame war. It would be full of name calling, insults and everything, but here you all write long comments stating you opinions on the issue, true gents eh mate.

As you can tell by my notoriously long comment, I tried my best. :)
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| November 10, 2012, 4:24 pm
Quoting LukeClarenceVan The Revanchist

The thing is, people believe what they are taught. People are taught that nudity/scanty dressing is bad. Hence, they believe that it is bad.

It's as simple as that.
Permalink
| November 10, 2012, 4:39 pm
Quoting Max Pointner
As a teenaged Christian, I don't see how a clown in a bikini is true, noble, right, pure, lovely, admirable, excellent or praiseworthy (Phill. 4:8). AND don't therefore believe it should be fodder for MOCs, especially for a Christian at my age.


I need to stop checking this thread, as each new comment doesn't add up for me. If that were the case, shouldn't Mark also never build his huge battle scenes? I thought that killing one another is bad. Maybe that's just my mistake. This is a contest for a building toy. Contests have categories, and some are more random than others. How one interprets that category is up to them. Now, if a Lego contest disrupts one's religious beliefs so heavily, I feel sorry for what the rest of the world is going to do to that person. I respect Mark's decision, but making it all about one silly category line is a bit too pious for a Lego contest. The category isn't "Show a scene of murder" or "Innuendo Rules," it is a category that exists to make the builder think and create a build that can connect a story-line. If Mark had been given the villain category, would he have objected? It is un-pure to build those who do bad things and are evil. If he had been given the robot gladiator category, would he have bowed out? Fighting is not recommended in the Bible, if I remember correctly. You sign up, you play the game, good or bad. I'm not always happy with my category, but I do my best and make sure I challenge my opponent. That's how this game works.

Soon I'm going to have to shell out a dime...

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| November 10, 2012, 4:45 pm
 Group admin 
All very well worded and thought out comments from everyone.

Mine will be brief.

The category will stand as is. If Mark chooses to find a way to make it work, he has until a week from Sunday to do so. If he chooses not to, then that's his choice.

It's Mark's beliefs and his choice and I will not give him (or anyone else) grief about their beliefs. I have very strong beliefs myself but I would never force them on anyone else, just as I'm not going to force my thoughts on Mark. If he believes it's against his religion to talk about a clown in a bikini, then that's the end of the conversation and we will all respect that.

Stu, you my friend have until a week from Sunday to post your creation whether Mark does or not (but you knew that already).

This is the end of this topic. Thank you all for your comments.

~Chris.
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| November 10, 2012, 4:47 pm
(facepalm)

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| November 10, 2012, 6:12 pm
Now, about that prize for "salami that got furthest in the contest"...You do have my adress, do you?
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| November 11, 2012, 4:59 am
Quoting Tyler Halliwell
Sorry, I didn't mean to sound so rude about that. No offense to your opinion. I was just stating what I had learned from past withdrawals.

Don't worry, I didn't take it the wrong way! Thanks for the clarification, mate :)
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| November 11, 2012, 12:35 pm
Any news on when Cody will give his deciding votes? I know, i'm impatient but due to 'those' circumstances i've had nothing to wait on EXCEPT everybody else's results! I believe it is me vs. Tom in one semi-final but i'm intrigued to find out who will make up the other - both matches hang in the balance!

Then of course we can get categories :)

At this rate i may actually have to do some sorting.....
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| November 22, 2012, 11:04 am
 Group admin 
Paging judge Cody... judge Cody please pick up a white courtesy phone...
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| November 22, 2012, 10:33 pm
 Group admin 
And it looks like Cody is MIA for this round. I haven't heard back from him on anything so... I don't know what happened but I hope everything's OK on his end.

In his absence, I've asked our standby judge Mark Kelso to step in and help finish off this round.

IF Mark's votes end us in a tie, I'll get yet another judge to step in and be the tie breaker.

I apologize to the players for the delay but rest assured that you WILL get the full 10 day time frame for your next round, no matter when it starts.

Thank you for understanding.

~Chris.
Permalink
| November 23, 2012, 11:22 pm
Come on Round 6! I'm itching to get building!
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| November 24, 2012, 6:17 pm
Quoting Mark Erickson

First of all my deepest respect to you Mark for having the courage to stand up for what you believe in.

Secondly I would like to express my shock at reading some of the hounding comments that were made towards Mark.A great many builders have lost my respect ,because of their participation in such obvious trolling,something I would expect from other sites but never MocPages

Thirdly I personally agree with Mark,even if it is just harmless joking to some it could be taken as suggestive or vulgar to others.And I as a christian want to remain unassociated with such things.

Yours respectfully ~Legionnaire
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| November 27, 2012, 2:03 pm
Quoting the Legionnaire
First of all my deepest respect to you Mark for having the courage to stand up for what you believe in.

Secondly I would like to express my shock at reading some of the hounding comments that were made towards Mark.A great many builders have lost my respect ,because of their participation in such obvious trolling,something I would expect from other sites but never MocPages

Thirdly I personally agree with Mark,even if it is just harmless joking to some it could be taken as suggestive or vulgar to others.And I as a christian want to remain unassociated with such things.

Yours respectfully ~Legionnaire

Do you realize that you shouldn't have brought that up? You only stand to increase the fighting when you do that.

And that wasn't trolling. Please look up the definition trolling, because the comments, at least those that I saw, were all thought through and mostly accurate, not just an attempt to bully someone through idiocy.
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| November 27, 2012, 2:06 pm
Quoting BobaFett 2
Do you realize that you shouldn't have brought that up? You only stand to increase the fighting when you do that.

And that wasn't trolling. Please look up the definition trolling, because the comments, at least those that I saw, were all thought through and mostly accurate, not just an attempt to bully someone through idiocy.


Oh my I was not trying to increase fighting in anyway but I could not stay silent on a topic like this.And buddy trust me I know what trolling means you may want to reread the thread over if you honestly didn't see it the first read
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| November 27, 2012, 2:31 pm
Quoting the Legionnaire

Oh my I was not trying to increase fighting in anyway but I could not stay silent on a topic like this.And buddy trust me I know what trolling means you may want to reread the thread over if you honestly didn't see it the first read

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Troll_%28Internet%29

While the comments may be seen as inflammatory, yours is even more so. I would not classify them as being extraneous or intentionally inflammatory - not trolling.
Permalink
| November 27, 2012, 3:23 pm
 Group admin 
This issue has gotten its place in the judges lounge.
How it will affect future contests is not yet clear but it is not ignored.

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| November 27, 2012, 3:59 pm
Quoting Sebeus I
This issue has gotten its place in the judges lounge.
How it will affect future contests is not yet clear but it is not ignored.

Just to keep this from coming up again here, even though you just said it is in the Judges lounge and it shouldn't be a problem, maybe the topic should just be locked. If someone really wants to bring up someone else's comment, they'll find a way, but laziness is fairly strong on the Internet, so they will just drop it.
Permalink
| November 27, 2012, 7:57 pm
Group moderators have locked this conversation.
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