If there's a God is there a Devil?

Or is there?

What are your thoughts?
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Yes. All of the evil in the world is kindled by him. There a few different ways he tries to lead us away from our maker, and into his grip.

#1: He tries to get people to think that they are the smartest, smarter than any god that could exist.

#2: He catches us with temptations that go against what God would want.

#3: He gives you/your family a hard time to convince you turn away from God.

There are probably more, these are just off of the top of my head.
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So, in your opinion, any atheist or someone following another faith is influenced by the devil? Does that include people of other branches of Christianity, like Catholicism?
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No, I believe that all Christians that truly follow Jesus are saved. I'm not sure about Muslims and Jews, because they believe in the one God as we do, but not Jesus.
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Am I correct in saying that the devil was once an angel?
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Urm correction, Catholicism is not a "branch" its the heart, the main structure. other things are "branches".

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Urm, I disagree with Muslims and Jews not going to heaven. Jesus was a Jew. I'm pretty sure Jews will go to "heaven". And it sounds like your calling Muslims and anybody who doesn't believe in the Cristian god "bad".
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Yes, his name was Lucifer and he became corrupt and was cast out of heaven. As angels being the the only others knowing of good and evil before the slip up in the Garden of Eden, Lucifer saw things differently and displeased God. At least that is what the paraphrased belief is.
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There was a lot of "there is a devil", but no "there is a devil, because... It is evident from... Science has confirmed..."

If there WAS a devil, I would be on the devil's side. But there is no devil, so I am on the side that would be if there was one.
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It's another case of "unprovable by definition".

As an example, take a terrorist organization: if nobody believes they exist, they can do anything they want. The instant they let some bit of proof slip, they'll have much more difficulty.


It helps that people are naturally inclined to do evil stuff.

Incorrect.

To paraphrase your plant metaphor, it's a noxious weed that decided secular power was a wonderful thing and strangled the other branches.

And then decided to set up an intricate and easily abused power structure.
(Easily abused, you say? Well, just take a look at the Borgias.)

Be more accurate to say "saw things differently and decided to take over".
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I did say paraphrased.
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Well said. I completely agree.
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Yes, he's called "The Non-Purist". (I kid Non-Purists, it's just so easy to make these jokes.) But seriously, I don't see how there could be a Devil. If there's a Devil there'd have to be a God, and they'd both be fighting all the time or something...
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"Tried to take over", I assume your taking about the Devil, because God already had power over everything.
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No there isn't, I find it hard to believe in a God or a Devil, I question their existence.
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Because the Devil wants you to.
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I said I wasn't sure if they would go to Heaven. I didn't say that they were bad, I just said that I wasn't sure about where they would end up.
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It's unbelievable that you can't see that the Devil has you in his clutches. Like I said: you think that science can prove everything, and that proves that there isn't a God. Maybe you should watch "The Case For Christ". It's about an atheist who actually went out to disprove that there was a God, and found compelling evidence that there is.
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"Unbelievable"? I laugh.

Let us say you are wrong. What if christianity is only what the real "devil" is blinding you with, so you can not go to the real heaven?
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Let's not say that, because there is absolutely no truth in that statement.
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O.K., you said you do not agree, now elaborate it.
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The difference between most religous people and scientifically thinking atheists is that the latter can open their mind and eplore diffrent possibilities.

Most religous people on the other hand refuse to listen to the other side. For that reason most of the time I choose not to debate with them. It would be like trying to teach a sheep how to herd dogs.
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You're thinking of the Zoroastrian beliefs. Christians believe that the battle is in hiatus by Christ's death and resurrection until the last days of Earth.
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It is not wrong to question, but why else would there be laws against sins?
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You are correct about people not wanting to hear about science when they believe in the devine, but I am actually curious about these things scientists have to say. While I deny them, there is usually some sort of truth to every statement. And although it is hard for some to swallow, sometimes faith in something is all that is needed to live more fully. Like I said to Sam, it is not wrong to question these things, but you need to have firm belief in what you believe first before questioning.
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I have watched it, and I also advise all of you to watch it.
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This "scientific evidence" has never been found true, yet the Bible proves much that can lead to what actually happened.
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This question asks, is there a Devil, but the real question should be, "Is there a God?". Without God, we would live in a horrible life of the devil, why would God let that happen? The Bible says that God loves us so much, that he sent his own Son to die on the cross, so that we could get a choice, that you either ask God into your heart, and you live in Heaven for eternity after your flesh has died, or live in an eternity in hell, blazing afire, burning there.
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Science and its Theories are constantly changing, Faith never does. I'm going to be on the side that is consistantly constant, not the one that is consistantly transforming.
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Exactly, if a theory is always changing, what is it against one that has never changed, and is still finding more evidence to lead that it is true?
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I am not voicing my beliefs right now, just speculating.

As shown in the above debate, the Devil seems like a very good way to write off anyone who voices good logic against Christianity. You can merely say "Oooh, dats da devil talkin!!"
And your problem is solved.


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So you believe an old guy hitting a rock with a stick thousands of years ago, but not evident truth that is researched more and more?

Thousands of years of experience over a couple decades of schyzophrenia?
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So what you are saying is that Captain America is true, becasue the storry happens in an existing war in existing places, but Batman is not true, because the story happens in a made-up city in made-up scenarios?
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If there was no deity of yours, how could it "not let that happen"?

What if the "Bible" is incorrect?
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Becasue, my dear friend, the "sins" were made up to be laws.

And why are the laws as they are? Becasue they are the compromise between people, who limit each other less this way.
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No. I'd rather not waste my time. Look into it for yourself.
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That's because we know what's true, and to listen to a bunch of phooey it completely pointless.
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I already did and found results. I have "wasted" MY time and it paid off.
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The Bible is not incorrect. It's just that people often misinterpret it.
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Why do you only say:

"you are wrong, I am right,"

but never explain why you think so?
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Sins are not meant to be laws. They are flaws in our humanity. God gave us the Ten Commandments not as laws, but as guidelines on how to live the best life.
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Again with your incomplete arguments. I would enjoy debating with you, but I do not know your standing points.
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You were given a rain check for eternal suffering.
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I accept.I would not submit to an almighty being, because I do not need to.

And "you were given a rain check for eternal suffering" in another religion that has EXACTLY the same possibility to be correct as your own.
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Let me sum this up for you with hard proof (this is for the Bible, and Biblical teachings overall).

How could have prophecies been written, and hundreds of years later be fulfilled?

Take this one for example: Isaiah prophesied that the Messiah would be called a Nazarene. At that time, Nazareth didn't exist. Jesus was born in Nazareth, and was the Messiah.

Of course Jesus fulfilled many other prophecies, but there were prophecies about other things too. There is so much proof supporting my argument. Especially historical proof. These "in depth" ideas about there being no God were not developed until recently. Again, I'm not saying that people never doubted, but now people use the almighty science to explain everything. Science is correct in many ways.

But you know what, GOD CREATED SCIENCE!
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Nah, they were made up as laws. Your "Bible" is not just a "divine message", but also its own phylosophy, the only real thing in there and yet the least noticed.
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#1: You don't think you need to submit to an almighty being because you don't think there is one. The Devil has convinced you of this through lies spoken through others who were lied to.

#2: What other Religion?
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Pastafarianism.
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You are still denying fact. How can you say you're "open" and yet still deny every piece of fact that's presented?
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Ha! You amuse me with your ridiculous, and totally untrue responses.
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I am open to explanations, not self-proclaimed "fact". Join me in the NeatChat chat-room, where we can discuss this fluently.
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No thank you. I will retire for the day.









Oh, and God Bless You.
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That is an extremist view. Those are the people that see anything as not being Christian as straight up evil.
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To be honest, your comment is really jumbled and confused. You're going to have to clarify. And I am not trying to avoid you, just trying understand what it is you are trying to say.
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Nobody would worship a comic book character that has been proven not to exist. Religious figures have been proven to have lived on this Earth like Jesus, Budha, heck, even Confusious! Not even a geek would praise Captain America, Iron Man, Spiderman, Batman, The Flash, Superman, or whatever super heroes you could name for a chance of a happy afterlife.
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I agree. As much as I am for TriedCascade 13, he needs to back himself up. If he is so strong in his faith, why not share what he believes and why, not just say he is right and that you are just stnpid for saying what you have said.
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You know full well you can't use that in an arguement, it was created in 2005!
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He already hates God to begin with, don't make him hate you if he doesn't already.
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You did not understand my comparison.

So if I say I am god, it is correct, because I exist and so EVERYTHING relating to me is the truth?
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Worry not, I hate everybody.
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It is just as plausable as any other religon. That was the reason to why it was created.
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What is one thing that you have done that thousands would see as holy and devine?
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But it has been proven to be completely made up. The older and larger religions have more credability because they have more believability and a faith basis that crosses hundereds of generations.
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That is not importaint in this argument, becasue it depends on the average perception of "holy" and "divine".
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Just because you exist and the things relating to you does not make you God. The perceptions of thousands seeing anything you do does not really matter then. You are just some lowly human like everyone else. This is why arguements about such things like religion should not be fought because there are never any winners. There is always going to be an arguement so long as people keep yelling at each other about it. I'm not saying it hasn't been fun, but it is more tolerable when people can just talk to each other about their differences in a respectable manner and not just viciously attack one another. I can muster up enough courage to say I am sorry for anything I have said that may have offended you, whether you would like to admit it or not. Are you willing to do the same? I know I am at fault for some things, I know you are and I know many others as well, so I just don't want to bother with arguements that attack people's well-being anymore. It's not fun for me. So I ask again, are you willing to stop? Because I know I am.
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Moderators can not lock topics, so I can not stop debating this with you.

NOW YOU HAVE TO CONTINIUE SUFFERING IN THIS DEBATE!!! MUHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAA!

All I am saying that not everythig BASED on real subjects and events is true. Actually, BASED, which is what the "Bible" is, moslty means "not-true".
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There you go again. Rather than just say the Bible is a lie, say that you believe is is because that attacks me where I am the most myself. You attacked my faith. I will not stand for that. I might as well just be like every other Christian here with the courage to actually to talk about this stuff instead of just sit back on the sidelines and just let a whole bunch of athiests with no care of who they hurt argue about whether there is a devine power, or a completely evil power, or wether or not anything in the Bible is true because all you guys care about is how to get high off your own projections!

You probably feel so happy now that you've gotten to the point of where I don't care obut this group anymore which now brings you to a group with nearly 30 members and only three being active.
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For the record: the "historical record" dating back before around the 1400s when people really started to write things down and save the records is completely unverifiable.
We have propaganda from the Greeks, ego-stroking from the Romans, drivel from the Egyptians and assorted scraps of information and legends from the rest of the world. It is completely impossible to prove either way what is and is not true.

Saying what is and is not accurate historical record is difficult at the best of times; historians were certain that Troy was a legend, right up until it was discovered. Immense amounts of info has been lost entirely, and a lot of what hasn't is still unintelligible because the places and people it refers to are either unknown or known by other names. Even recentish stuff from the 700s has been lost; there are a number of weapons mentioned in the Viking Sagas, for instance, that no-one knows anything about because none were dug up and the material that DOES say what they were is long lost.

IIRC, Gypsy is an agnostic. There's a difference; athiests believe "there is no God", antitheists believe "there is no God and anyone who thinks there is one should be brainwashed/killed" and agnostics believe "there may or may not be a God, but there's no way to be sure".
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MC, this is a debate and I'm sure what Deus is saying is not aimed as a personal attack against you or your faith.

A debate includes two or moe peope with different opinions discussing them. If you take any of it in offense I suggest you move to a different topic. Perhaps one that is less sensitive for you.
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But that is just it, people keep turning it around and making it some religious arguement in the debates. They will find some way to connect it and then boom, another arguement that turned into "You're wrong, I'm right!" and the "You're using religion, which is stnpid and that makes you wrong so now I'm right!"

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I'm not really sure if there is anything I can do about that. But as an admin It my duty.

I will enforce greater rules about staying on topic. I can't promise that will remove religion from the table but if you feel you are being call s tupid of whatever, I recommend you leave the conversation.
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I never claimed you to be stupid, so please stop over-reacting. I said that your argument was not sufficiently founded, all you had to do after that would be either reinforcing it or denying my statement taht argued yours.
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