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General conversation III
For posting general conversation that doesnt belong anywhere else. The old one was pretty long, so I made a new one.


Permalink
| September 26, 2012, 5:45 pm
Quoting Michael Rutherford
So whats up with our two silent group members? They joined about a week ago, but no nations in the sign up thread. No action. Whats the deal?

There hasnt been any activity on there homepages.
Permalink
| September 27, 2012, 12:57 pm
 Group moderator 
Quoting Michael Rutherford Are you trying to get any other new members? This place seems so quiet.
I think we should invite Andrew Somers as he is a very talented builder and has a lot of creation for this group.

Permalink
| September 27, 2012, 2:42 pm
Quoting Michael Rutherford
Quoting Nightmaresquid º
There hasnt been any activity on there homepages.


yea, that's a good place to check, I should have thought of that. Are you trying to get any other new members? This place seems so quiet.

Any ideas on who to invite? I really dont know that many people.
Permalink
| September 27, 2012, 2:55 pm
 Group moderator 
Maybe we could do some building challenges. For example, you have to build something and if you do, you get some bonus like some extra vehicles.

By the way, I'm planning to make a short comic about territory-53 and if it makes it to the main page, more people will know about this group.
Permalink
| September 27, 2012, 4:12 pm
Quoting Michael Rutherford

Mr. Squid, when people join the group, you should try to greet them right away. Let them know you are glad they joined: "Hey, welcome to the group! Check out the "New members" thread and if you have any questions, I would be happy to help you out...".

Like that guy Matt P. He joined about a week ago, but nobody has said a word to him. It makes a difference. Go check his stuff out. He has a whole fleet of ships and some pretty good stuff. Leave a review and mention the group, and I bet he shows up on the new nations thread and the stats page.

What have we got to lose?

Yes I agree, but I've know Matt P for quite a while. Matt P is the one who created conflict I, and he isnt usually very active, after conflict II broke down he hasnt really done anything on the pages.

I usually have lots of free time, and check the groups activity every day. When new members join I usually do check there mocpages.

I know that the group isnt very active, but there is curretly only 14 members. Im hoping that since the group is set up, that people might show some interest, Im also planning on releasing my new creations, my new camera arrived yesterday and I have no excuses.
Permalink
| September 27, 2012, 6:10 pm
Quoting Michael Rutherford
Mr. Squid,

Can you tell me what happens to a country if they endanger their economy by violating the growth rate of 1 territory every 4 weeks?

What is the actual impact on that country? Do they lose weapons, or soldiers, or does their production rate go down? How long to the effects last?

Lets just say, for every one nation, it takes at least 2 weeks to capture


for every nation your attacking at the same time you add three days of cool down time to the normal 2 weeks.

for example
1 nation - 2 weeks - 14 days cooldown

2 nations - 2 weeks - 31 days cooldown.

3 nations - 2 weeks - 48 days

4 nations - 2 weeks - 65 days

Permalink
| October 1, 2012, 11:10 am
 Group moderator 
Wow! 69 people call me as their favorites.
Permalink
| October 1, 2012, 11:26 am
Quoting Michael Rutherford
Mr. Squid,

So, what if you do things to address the cost of a third annexation.

1. Like halting all military production for two weeks (thats a lot of money right)?
2. Accumulating cash by the sale of weapons?

I recall you mentioning in another thread that this surplus cash could be used to reduce the cool down time between annexations.

Also, how big does a nation have to get (number of territories) before the annexation limit increases?

Again, can China really only annex the same number of countries as Chile?

Mike

Wait, check my comment, I set up a better system.
Im not sure I want to add a money system, but
maybe halting production of vehicles could cut
3 days for every week.
Permalink
| October 1, 2012, 11:41 am
Quoting Michael Rutherford
Mr. Squid, this is the post I was referring to. It says basically, that money in the game is not worth much because there is no real economic system, but

more importantly...

it says that cash from the sale of weapons can be used to reduce cool down time.

So... what’s the deal? If I find somebody to buy weapons then I can use the cash to speed things up a bit right?

That was an older comment, Im not sure that we could make a workable system for selling items, at least one thats not a page long.

You could always trade items, or simply ask a freind to import some for free, possibly even production rights.
For example, now that Ive begun producing weapons, I can start trading.

Permalink
| October 1, 2012, 12:28 pm
Quoting Michael Rutherford
Unless you use the Diesel sail hybrid transports in which case it's:
2 territories = 2 weeks -14 days cool down right?

Well no, but since he rule has taken effect today, I guess we can let this slide.
Quoting Matthew Sylvan
Wow! 69 people call me as their favorites.

Cool, But Im not sure that is very many.
over 100 people call me a favorite.
Then again half of them havnt been active on mocpages for over a year, some added me back 2010.

So Im not really sure being a bunch of peoples favorite really means anything.
Permalink
| October 1, 2012, 1:25 pm
 Group moderator 
Quoting Nightmaresquid º
Cool, But Im not sure that is very many.
over 100 people call me a favorite.
Then again half of them havnt been active on mocpages for over a year, some added me back 2010.

So Im not really sure being a bunch of peoples favorite really means anything.

Well, it means a lot for me.
Permalink
| October 1, 2012, 1:40 pm
Quoting Matthew Sylvan
Well, it means a lot for me.

I think you deserve more, but for me its more of a hassle, I cant keep track of that many.
Permalink
| October 1, 2012, 1:44 pm
Quoting rutherford

Dude, this is pretty important stuff to be moving around on.

Sorry, but Im not really sure I understand.
You mean sea annexations dont need as much cool down time?
I suppose if I said that then ok, I cant really read the comment that well.

Permalink
| October 1, 2012, 4:28 pm
Quoting Michael Rutherford
Yea, it's confusing. Here is the step by step version:

1. The rule is that you can only annex one territory at a time because it cost so much. If you do more than that, your economy suffers.

Basically it's all about my ongoing quest to find faster ways to grow. But don't worry. Your group, your rules (stay hard!). I just want to keep track (and grow!).

Make sense?
Mike

Yeah sorry about that, I guess sea travel could have a benifit, maybe minus 2 days "per week" cooldown time. Its just that this new system conflicts with what I said before.
Permalink
| October 1, 2012, 7:12 pm
Quoting Michael Rutherford

Am I right yet?

yes, and for every territory you annex at the same time you add three days per week.

so if your capturing 3 territories

14 * 3 = 42 + 3 per week = 48, the first territory doesnt count, so 48 days,- bonuses if you use them.
Permalink
| October 1, 2012, 7:33 pm
Quoting Michael Rutherford

OK, so...

4 territories would be:
14 x 4=56 + 4 per week = 64 days (- 3 days per week that production is held at ZERO).

So if I hold production at ZERO for... 6 weeks I could subtract 18 days from that total for a new total of 46 days? 4 territories in 46 days (and no new weapons).

Huh. (was my math correct?)

yes exept you added + 4 instead of + 3 "the + doest change. Remember that thats all cool down time, there is still the two weeks.
Permalink
| October 1, 2012, 7:55 pm
What does everyone else think about the system, I think its a bit to complex.

Why dont we just wing it?
2 weeks per annexation, and two weeks cooldowntime, maybe a cap of three territories at once.

Remember Im letting you decide.
Permalink
| October 2, 2012, 7:12 am
 Group moderator 
Quoting Nightmaresquid º
What does everyone else think about the system, I think its a bit to complex.

Why dont we just wing it?
2 weeks per annexation, and two weeks cooldowntime, maybe a cap of three territories at once.

Remember Im letting you decide.

That's too much math for me. xD
Permalink
| October 2, 2012, 7:31 am
Quoting Matthew Sylvan
That's too much math for me. xD

Yeah I figured that most members wouldnt want to do the math, including me.

BTW the next map update will be up by the end of the week.
Permalink
| October 2, 2012, 7:36 am
Hey guys, The cheyenne military is now running at 100% capacity in terms of ground forces. I have an effective fighting force. what do you think I should work on next.

I was thinking of building my micro scale navy, and a transport & bomber plane
Then maybe a transport helicopter.

I was also thinking about non combat utility vehicles, like radar, and trucks.
Permalink
| October 2, 2012, 7:49 am
 Group moderator 
Quoting Nightmaresquid º
Hey guys, The cheyenne military is now running at 100% capacity in terms of ground forces. I have an effective fighting force. what do you think I should work on next.

I was thinking of building my micro scale navy, and a transport & bomber plane
Then maybe a transport helicopter.

I was also thinking about non combat utility vehicles, like radar, and trucks.

In my opinion, the air-force is the most important in modern warfare. If you control the air you can control the ground. Although, the navy is really important too. I have some ships ready to be uploaded.
Permalink
| October 2, 2012, 9:15 am
 Group admin 
Quoting Matthew Sylvan
In my opinion, the air-force is the most important in modern warfare. If you control the air you can control the ground. Although, the navy is really important too. I have some ships ready to be uploaded.

No, not really, airpower can't hold ground, you need boots on the ground for that. The air-force is still very important, don't get me wrong, but in no way does it control the battlefield.
Permalink
| October 2, 2012, 10:10 am
 Group admin 
Quoting Nightmaresquid º
Hey guys, The cheyenne military is now running at 100% capacity in terms of ground forces. I have an effective fighting force. what do you think I should work on next.

I was thinking of building my micro scale navy, and a transport & bomber plane
Then maybe a transport helicopter.

I was also thinking about non combat utility vehicles, like radar, and trucks.

I've built several non-combat vehicles, and I can assure you that they are still quite fun to make. You should try building a few. I would also say you have missed a few important types of combat vehicles.
Permalink
| October 2, 2012, 10:15 am
 Group moderator 
Quoting Michael Rutherford People don't like to build transport assets because they are not glamorous. But trucks haul victory. Believe it.
Trucks are fun to build. I have some but I might even make some new.

Permalink
| October 2, 2012, 11:53 am
Quoting Michael Rutherford

I think you should be able to attack 1 territory for every three you already own (but you can always attack at least 1).

When will we actually decide this issue? We need to make the decision so we can proceed with planning.


Ok sounds good, simple yet effective.
It will go into effect by tommorro, as long as everyones happy.
Permalink
| October 2, 2012, 2:46 pm
 Group admin 
Quoting Michael Rutherford

I agree with your assessment of the role of air power. Mr. Squid is looking for looking for specific examples. What type of combat vehicles would you say he needs?

1. Self-Propelled Howitzer
2. dedicated Self-Propelled Mortar
3. Rocket Artillery
4. Some sort of dedicated AA platform that actually has a radar
5. dedicated Anti-tank platform
6. a tracked heavy IFV
7. something like the Russian BPMT terminator

AA is especially inportant since his airforce is currently almost non-existant.

(note: yes, he does have some of these, but they are only small batches of my designs that he can't build more of, so he needs to build his own domestic designs)
Permalink
| October 2, 2012, 4:40 pm
 Group moderator 
Quoting Michael Rutherford
Gentlemen,

I think my combat update for T-118 is stuck in moderation. Can any of you tell me if it is there or if it got deleted?

Thanks.
Mike
Allowed it.

Permalink
| October 3, 2012, 9:41 am
 Group admin 
Quoting Michael Rutherford
Quoting Matthew McCall
2. dedicated Self-Propelled Mortar
4. Some sort of dedicated AA platform that actually has a radar
5. dedicated Anti-tank platform

What do you mean when you use the word:"Dedicated?"

A platform that does nothing but one job. For example, he gave his tank a mortar, but I'm saying it would be good to have a vehicle that's a mortar first and foremost.
Permalink
| October 3, 2012, 1:05 pm
 Group admin 
Quoting Michael Rutherford
Quoting Matthew McCall
A platform that does nothing but one job. For example, he gave his tank a mortar, but I'm saying it would be good to have a vehicle that's a mortar first and foremost. >>>

Hmm. Correct usage. A platform that is task specific, and therefor (in theory) the best platform for that task. It's very sound thinking but there are some down sides to that approach.

Care to take a stab at what they might be?

The main problem that I can think of is lack of flexability and overspecialization. However, trying to cram too much stuff into a vehicle detracts from it's primary purpose. don't get me wrong, I think it's a great idea to do stuff like put mortars in tanks, but imagine if someone designed a tank that also carried soldiers, an AA system, anti-tank missiles, an autocannon, ect... this would obviously take up a ton of space and hamper the tanks primary goal of being a tank.

These are some good examples of a specialised varient of a vehicle dedicated to a specfic task:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/M1129_Mortar_Carrierhttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/M1134_Anti-Tank_Guided_Missile_Vehicle


Permalink
| October 3, 2012, 2:13 pm
Quoting Matthew McCall
1. Self-Propelled Howitzer
2. dedicated Self-Propelled Mortar
3. Rocket Artillery
4. Some sort of dedicated AA platform that actually has a radar
5. dedicated Anti-tank platform
6. a tracked heavy IFV
7. something like the Russian BPMT terminator

AA is especially inportant since his airforce is currently almost non-existant.

Im not sure why I would need some of these, but I will take it into consideration.
An SPH, and a MLRS are planned but way into the future "due to parts"

An AA system is finished and yet to be posted, along with a supply truck, and a scout car.
Permalink
| October 3, 2012, 3:40 pm
 Group admin 
Quoting Nightmaresquid º
Quoting Matthew McCall
1. Self-Propelled Howitzer
2. dedicated Self-Propelled Mortar
3. Rocket Artillery
4. Some sort of dedicated AA platform that actually has a radar
5. dedicated Anti-tank platform
6. a tracked heavy IFV
7. something like the Russian BPMT terminator

AA is especially inportant since his airforce is currently almost non-existant.

Im not sure why I would need some of these, but I will take it into consideration.
An SPH, and a MLRS are planned but way into the future "due to parts"

An AA system is finished and yet to be posted, along with a supply truck, and a scout car.

Self-propelled artillery is able to perform shoot and scoot much better than towed artillery, meaning that it is far less vulnerable to counter-battery.

MLRS is great at counterbattery and short-term extreme firepower, so it is complimentary to howitzers.

Since you lack a strong airforce, you want to have better airdefence systems than the tank varient you currently have. It would seem you have already built a better one.

Anti-tank vehicles aren't necassary, but can be used to provide heavy firepower in the lighter combat vehicle category rather than just IFVs.

A tracked IFV isn't neccassary, but it is inarguable that tracked IFVs do have at least some inportant advantages over their wheeled counterparts, so it would seem good to have a balanced mix.

BPMTs are highly valuabe as they would perform excellently in urban warfare, and they can provide great protection for tanks. Once agian, not necassary, but they fill a useful role.


Permalink
| October 3, 2012, 4:47 pm
 Group admin 
Quoting Michael Rutherford
I'm a big fan of specialization. Especially for fighter craft and MBTs I think the U.S. Bradley IFV is a perfect example of why specialization matters: its a vehicle that is a little of everything, but not really enough of anything. It's gun is not big enough to be a good tank. It does not carry enough ammo to last long in a fight. It does not carry enough troops to be a good APC. The armor doesn't stop 50 cal, but it's to heavy for it to be a genuinely effective amphibious platform. It's big, tall, heavy, cost a lot, and just doesn't earn its keep. The British Scorpion and German Weasel are better light tanks. The Soviet BMPs are better troop carriers. And anything would be a better STINGER or TOW platform.

But in this early phase of the game, where player on player contact is so unlikely, I would say: go with the cheap universal platforms for minimum cost".

*Sigh* I don't think you understand the IFV concept, you got much of your information wrong, the Bradley is old and being replaced, and for some reason you are comparing it to light tanks, armored cars, and reconnaissance vehicles.

First off, the Bradley is an IFV, not a light tank. IFV's have a significantly different role on the battlefield than tanks. Yes, the gun is on the smaller side, but it's still effective at it's role. As for your claim of not enough ammo, this is laughable. It has 900 rounds of 25mm, 7 missiles, and 2,200 rounds of 7.62.

When you say it doesn't carry enough troops for an APC, yes, you're right. That's because it's NOT an APC. All IFVs carry smaller amounts of troops than APCs, this is hardly a fair complaint. Bradley armor protects from fire up to 30mm, which is significantly more powerful than 50 cal. Yes, the Bradley isn't very good at being amphibious, but that's a logical drawback to being so heavy. As for complaints about cost, the US doesn't care much about cost, which is why we spend as much as the next top 10 spenders combined. In other words, we have a big budget which allows us to get exspensive things. Like, you know, the GCV Infantry Fighting Vehicle that's replacing the Bradley since we want a better vehicle. XD

Your examples of vehicles that are "better" than the Bradley are quite simply wrong. BMP could mean anything from an absolutley horrible BMP-1 to something like the BMP-3, which is competive, but not superior, to the Bradley. The scorpion has been RETIRED for 18 years, and is in no way comparable to a IFV in the first place. As far as I can tell, it also has worse armor. As for the Wiesel, it's armor is only resistant to 7.92 mm, and the standard models only have a 20mm cannon, leaving them with far less firepower any way you look at it. Not to mention they don't carry any troops in the first place.

No offense, I normally highly respect your posts, but this time you were simply wrong.

Permalink
| October 3, 2012, 7:18 pm
 Group admin 
Mr. Rutherford, I'm sorry if my rebuttal came off as too agressive, and for that I apologise. I would also like to point out that I'm not a Bradley fanboy, admit it has a wide variety of flaws, think that it needs to be replaced, and believe the German Marder and Swedish SV90 to be better IFVs. Anyway, I still stand by my argument regardless.
Permalink
| October 8, 2012, 2:46 pm
 Group moderator 
Quoting Michael Rutherford
I got something stuck in moderation. Must have used the wrong type of ammo.
Allowed it, but please post in General Conversation IV next time. Thank you.

Permalink
| October 15, 2012, 1:05 pm
Group moderators have locked this conversation.
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