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Star Wars: Space or not?
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While I note that this topic has been breached on several occasions, no official conclusion has been stated aside from that most of the people who post in the conversation section don't think that it is.

I completely agree with those who think Star Wars is different than Space. IMHO, Star Wars is not science fiction. It is fantasy with flashy lights on. I do not think Star Wars creations should be housed in Space and, if it is possible, that an admin should remove Star Wars creations from the group.

In fact there are more than 50 groups which are adequate for Star Wars. There is, who'da thunk, a group actually *named* Star Wars. And yet there are only 41 creations in it, versus the hundreds of Star Wars creations in Space.

Why?
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| January 11, 2009, 11:48 am
I have been thinking about this question ever since I saw it posted earlier on one of the other threads, and I still don't have a good answer, really. The problem, ultimately, is where one would want to draw the line?

If we draw a boundary at Star Wars, where exactly is the edge? What about something inspired by the imagery and designs used in Star Wars, but not set in that universe?

Star Wars is not science fiction, but it is set in space – some other theme blurring genres might also be debatable here. Post-Apocalyptic futures, Stargate stuff (not set in the future), Halo and other video games, steampunk, and even real world space exploration could be just as easily up on the chopping block next. Do we start down that road? Eventually we could be left with nothing allowed but pure classic Lego Space (not even Blacktron and the like!)

Another good question about banning Star Wars is what the real motivations are. If it is simply because it is not Science Fiction, then there is at least one group here already strictly dedicated to that. Or is it because of the kinds of people the theme tends to draw or the sort of MOCs they make? That sort of judgments are not good for a group as extensive and public as “Space” I don't think. I group could be created that was more private and only includes “stuff I like”, right?

This is all me playing devil's advocate here – I don't even build Star Wars my self (though I might sometimes be influenced by it – who born in within the last several decades isn't?), but these are some things on this subject I have been mulling over.
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| January 11, 2009, 5:09 pm
I build some space and build Star Wars also. I can´t belive people don´t consider Star Wars a Sci-Fi, it is pure Sci-fi. But Space is different and we can´t have both in the same group. Please moderators, take out SW stuff.
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| January 11, 2009, 6:26 pm
I think only space-ships from Star Wars (no ground vehicles) should be allowed in the Space group.
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| January 11, 2009, 6:28 pm
Many people could go on and on about how Star Wars is not Science Fiction, but this quote from the Time review of the original movie (May 30, 1977) says it best:

"But as Lucas and Producer Kurtz quickly point out, Star Wars is not science fiction but space fantasy. 'Space fantasy allows you more rein to say what you want to say,' explains Kurtz. 'So that's what we call it.'"

Even Lucas doesn't consider it science fiction! Need more proof? Read this (http://starwars-edifice.co.uk/starwars-edifice_not_science_fiction.htm) or this (http://www.squaremans.com/?p=63).

Sorry for the short rant....

So its not science fiction, but is it Space? Many of us seem to want to say it isn't, but if not, why not? Does Space = Science Fiction? Is there another essential quality that Space has but Star Wars doesn't? Or is this group better named "Space...except Star Wars for no good reason"
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| January 11, 2009, 8:35 pm
I consider starwars to be non-space. However, postapoc has it's own groups and ditto for stargate.
I think this group should be for original space items, not related to those other things.
Things that do not have their own groups and are science fiction should go here.
Starwars, however, is not science fiction. Ever seen how starwars ships move? They fly like aircraft. They make noise, they use 'laser cannons' that fire bolts of energy. If they were armed with plasguns that might be tolerable, but these days starwars isn't even trying to be science fiction.
Didja know stormtroopers were supposed to have lightsabers and shields in the early versions?
Even the heroes use their magic laser swords for everything from flying to invisibility tricks. Now if that's science fiction, I'm Asimov.
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| January 11, 2009, 11:47 pm
Now there is finally a definition I could picture: Space is sci-fi-esque original creations that don't fit into a specific universe (or a universe of your own creation). That, I think, would still include the Lego Space sub-themes (and the fan created ones) because they didn't really have a defined universe or story - you got to make up the universe they belonged in. It doesn't ban a specific universe arbitrarily either.

Get enough people behind this - especially the moderators - and you may have something to put on the front page and the rules!

There are some really cool MOCs out there for established spacey universes, though, but then again there are also cool trains, castles, and houses...
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| January 12, 2009, 1:12 am
Star Wars should NOT be classified at all under, classic space, space...etc., it wasn't even invented by Mr. Lucas. He was sued for Illegal copy-right when star "wars" was released

STAR WARS, should not be classified under something as good as classic space, because it has no decent looks to any of it, and none of the ships are continuous(what i mean is when they change), except for 1,2,3, when the Republic Jedi ships change, but have the same basic shape.

Star Wars, is a "Classic Fantasy Space" theoretically none of the things in it would be able to move, but then again most sci-fi things don't look it either.

Steam punk can't be classified as space, mainly because it wouldn't work in space.
Blacktron is technically still classic space.
Space is NOT Science-Fiction, science fiction can mean any thing that is theoretically applicable to science, but Space is anything to do with Space related items, anything that can move in space, and can be carried in space (vehicles, and what not) Although star wars falls into the SPACE category, we only see space battle in it when it comes to space, but we mostly see ships and other things on planets, so by majority, Star Wars is Science-Fiction

~Martin
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| January 12, 2009, 2:15 am
Legobendy, you misunderstand. There should be no limits on small homemade universes. Nothing big and commercial, like stargate, starwars, starcraft. Classicspace and other such things should be permitted.
Nova Refuge and PCS and other large fanverses should have their own groups.
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| January 12, 2009, 2:36 am
i agree with willis only space vehicles from star wars not land ones
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| January 12, 2009, 2:57 am
Have you read the rest of it? Everyone sensible agrees no starwars. At all.
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| January 12, 2009, 3:06 am
But we must see that science fiction not always has Starships: I robot, for example, has no ships. I think that even if is in space, but has a separated theme for it, must not be here. Bruno
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| January 12, 2009, 4:54 am
Quoting Areetsa C
Legobendy, you misunderstand. There should be no limits on small homemade universes....Nova Refuge and PCS and other large fanverses should have their own groups.


Oops - that is pretty much what I meant to say - I looked back at my post and realized I mistyped. I added the part about "your own universe" as an after thought, and I added it in the wrong place and in the wrong way, so it came out sounding like the opposite of what I meant. But I would say any fan created theme, even large ones like PCS or 3vil (I am not familiar with Nova Refuge, sorry) should be allowed here. They grew a following, but they still started as and for the most part remain homebrew universes, evolving into official Lego sub-themes notwithstanding.
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| January 12, 2009, 5:02 am
Maybe I should just make a science fiction group so that we can end this destructive conversation.
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| January 12, 2009, 6:48 am
 Group admin 
Quoting Elite Marshal Katana
Maybe I should just make a science fiction group so that we can end this destructive conversation.

There is at least one sci-fi group that I know of. This is it for anyone who's interested: http://www.mocpages.com/group.php/98


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| January 12, 2009, 8:01 am
This is really just a basic conversation; We should narrow what we don't want down to a few items and list them. Here's mine: starwars, halo.

Both are big, popular and have their own groups.

Nova refuge is the work of one Saber-Scorpion, whom you can probably find by searching for 'nova refuge' on that thing up and to the right; I think it's called 'search'.

Anyway, I think space can be summed up as follows: in the future, possibly based on some science, not starwars, startrek, halo, starcra- no, let starcraft in. It's not too popular and there's some great stuff of it.

Sci-fi is as follows: based on a scientific principle as a driving force for the plot, sometimes in the future, sometimes in the past, sometimes right now. 1984, by George Orwell, to give an example, is science fiction because it uses a scientific concept for it's driving force.
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| January 12, 2009, 1:51 pm
- Halo
- Star Wars

I guess Nova Refuge isn't too bad as there aren't nearly as many creations based on it as there are for the aforementioned Depressing Duo, which I propose be eliminated immediately.
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| January 12, 2009, 3:45 pm
Oh thaaat search bar... cool MOCs in there!

My list would be -

Eliminate: Any published or commercialized science-fiction or space fantasy, to include movies, tv, books, comics, and video games, excepting exclusively Lego themes and sub-themes.

Allow: Original Fan created MOCs from no set universe or from fan created universes, regardless of popularity.

The above keeps it neutral - no elimination (or inclusion) of specific themes or universes just because a few people don't like them personally. For example, as much as I have to give 3vil credit for living the dream and becoming the official Space Skulls, I really think those big skulls are rather silly looking. I still think they should be allowed here, however, because they represent both an original universe of MOCs and an actual Lego Space sub-theme. The above does unfortunately eliminate cool things like classic SF literature, but its better than trying to draw an arbitrary line between what commercially published material would be allowed and what wouldn't be, because no two people will ever agree.
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| January 12, 2009, 4:06 pm
Quoting Bruno Vaiano
I build some space and build Star Wars also. I can´t belive people don´t consider Star Wars a Sci-Fi, it is pure Sci-fi. But Space is different and we can´t have both in the same group. Please moderators, take out SW stuff.


I couldn't agree less really. Star Wars is all about Space. And 'Space' is pretty much the same as sci-fi, at least in the LEGO genre and nearly always in film-making. Seriously though, when was the last time you saw a 'Space' movie about the painfully slowly shifting cosmos on the big screen?

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| January 13, 2009, 1:42 am
Can we all agree on this?

Star wars is ONLY allowed in the group if it is a SHIP, and OVER 100 studs long.

You said SPACE, so people can do star wars, as long as it is a SHIP, because they are in star wars but they are the SPACE part.

Can we agree on that?

So ANY other star wars besides a SHIP, must be removed from the group.

(This is for you Mark, cause you have some AWESOME Star Wars SHIPS, and they deserve to be in SPACE.) S.pecial P.artical A.stronomically C.anned E.nergy.

....in case you were wondering what SPACE meant..... lol, well that is what all spaceships are. heehee, lets see you guys come up with that on short notice, lol, no offence guys.

I hope this doesn't turn into a tide, that everyone stops talking to each other. can we all please agree on my suggestion.
It is a FAIR compromise, anything that is OVER 100 studs and is a spaceship may be allowed in the group, but must be moderated.

~Martin
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| January 13, 2009, 7:42 am
Oh by the way guys? you are all compromising, if you let nova refuge in, then you let star trek in, if you let starcraft in, you let star wars in, you are breaking up your argument.

Why don't we all just say, anything that is a SPACESHIP from these separate outshoots.
That gives us all the SPACE category, but none of that little land stuff and aerial vehicles. ONLY SPACE vehicles that are cruisers, flagships, battle ships, carriers etc... they can be able to travel in the atmosphere to land and resupply, that is it, but their purpose must be in Space, nothing to do with planets.
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| January 13, 2009, 7:47 am
That seems like an idea; my meaning was that startrek and such would be an instant no-no, as someone probably has a group for that already but starcraft should be allowed; it is not a very popular theme and thus there would be no flooding.

But yes, hundred stud and over vessels for the starwars theme should be allowed.
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| January 20, 2009, 9:27 pm
Well, I guess if I want to stay an active member of this group, it's off to Bricklink for some extraordinary shipments of bulk plates!
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| January 20, 2009, 10:25 pm
Then what's the point of having groups? The main menu has that. Individual groups have their own themes.

If groups had folders, starwarsers and halo lovers would put every one of their mocs in every group. Then all the good stuff would get deleted along with the trash by the mods.
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| January 26, 2009, 8:59 pm
Star Wars "space ships" *cough, cough* most of the time are replicas [or a slight variation, ex. "i putz kustum decalz on et!!1!1!"] of an already made vehicle. For this space group, I think it should be more about originality, not replication. That's the key for me, so take your kustom arc gunhsip to a Star Wars group.
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| January 27, 2009, 2:29 pm
This goes on from the debate of UFO's.
When i say UFO, what do you immediately think?... Aliens!.
I have seen SO many people put up movies on youtube saying a UFO crashes into a Wind Turbine, and ALL of the comments say, " Aw you just put up UFO to make it look like an alien crashed into it"...or "Haha, you'd think if aliens were SO advanced, they'd have anti-collision sensors."
It is a pointless debate, there will ALWAYS be those people who think when some one says Sci-Fi, that this Immediately means, SPACE SHIPS.

You may not see it, but ^that^ applies to Star Wars as well. As ONLY the Space craft can be added in SPACE, if this group were called "Sci-Fi" we could put ANYTHING that has to do with flashing lights, and futuristic technology.

If you look over what i have said, and take a while to understand it, then you will see what i mean, and this debate will all be over.
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| February 1, 2009, 5:55 am
I agree with Will Thomas (for once...)
He is right in saying that....although not necessarily in that manner... but he is right.
This group should be about originality, not re-creation.
That is MOC, MY own CREATION, it is not MOR, MY own REPLICA, or MOM, MY own MODIFICATION.
It is MOC.
Unless the replica is EPIC, then it should not be posted here.
No, Mr. Kelso, you are not in the spotlight, all of your creations are EPIC.
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| February 1, 2009, 5:59 am
Quoting Martin Steenbeeke
This goes on from the debate of UFO's.
When i say UFO, what do you immediately think?... Aliens!.
I have seen SO many people put up movies on youtube saying a UFO crashes into a Wind Turbine, and ALL of the comments say, " Aw you just put up UFO to make it look like an alien crashed into it"...or "Haha, you'd think if aliens were SO advanced, they'd have anti-collision sensors."
It is a pointless debate, there will ALWAYS be those people who think when some one says Sci-Fi, that this Immediately means, SPACE SHIPS.

You may not see it, but ^that^ applies to Star Wars as well. As ONLY the Space craft can be added in SPACE, if this group were called "Sci-Fi" we could put ANYTHING that has to do with flashing lights, and futuristic technology.

If you look over what i have said, and take a while to understand it, then you will see what i mean, and this debate will all be over.


You know, I need to add something to that. When we think "alien," most people tend to think of them as a more smarter species than us. Why can't we be smarter? Why can't we invade a planet and take out their towns with huge mother ships and indestructible force fields?

The point is, star wars makes humans smarter than aliens. This is a major difference between the "space and sci-fi" culture and the "star wars culture."
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| February 9, 2009, 10:25 pm
Star Wars is unique because everything has some sort of explanation in it; in normal Space, laser guns are just laser guns. In Star Wars, laser guns are blasters, weapons that use compressed and then ignited tabana gas to produce a high-energy bolt of plasma. Star Wars is too realistic to be considered in the space genre. Star Wars is a genre all of its own. Everything else, including Star Trek, is space.
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| March 21, 2009, 7:15 pm
Quoting Tim Cliffe
Star Wars is unique because everything has some sort of explanation in it; in normal Space, laser guns are just laser guns. In Star Wars, laser guns are blasters, weapons that use compressed and then ignited tabana gas to produce a high-energy bolt of plasma. Star Wars is too realistic to be considered in the space genre. Star Wars is a genre all of its own. Everything else, including Star Trek, is space.


No, 2001: A Space Odyssey is Space.

Starwars is mindless fiction for the masses.
Same for startrek: treknobabble galore.
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| March 21, 2009, 9:11 pm
I'm with Him^
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| March 21, 2009, 9:16 pm
Quoting Martin Steenbeeke
I'm with Him^


Thank you.


Another point of contention between starwars and proper SF is this: space battles are much like sea warfare of old: ships usually stay on a line with each other, oriented to a common horizon, fighters act like jets, and never, ever does a ship move off an even keel unless severely damaged.
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| March 21, 2009, 9:33 pm
Quoting Areetsa C

Thank you.


Another point of contention between starwars and proper SF is this: space battles are much like sea warfare of old: ships usually stay on a line with each other, oriented to a common horizon, fighters act like jets, and never, ever does a ship move off an even keel unless severely damaged.

What about 1930's-1950's stuff like Buck Rogers?
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| March 21, 2009, 9:55 pm
Quoting Tim Cliffe
What about 1930's-1950's stuff like Buck Rogers?


Same sort of thing, only if done right it counts as retro-futurism.
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| March 21, 2009, 11:08 pm
And we shall replace the crummy star wars them with:

"In the Navy, We'll sail the Seven Stars!, In the Navy, we'll blow tonnes of stuff up!, In the Navy we'll lose the bloomin' war, In the Navy we'll"....Yeah you get my drift.

Again, agreeing with Areetsa C
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| March 21, 2009, 11:26 pm
Quoting Martin Steenbeeke
And we shall replace the crummy star wars them with:

"In the Navy, We'll sail the Seven Stars!, In the Navy, we'll blow tonnes of stuff up!, In the Navy we'll lose the bloomin' war, In the Navy we'll"....Yeah you get my drift.

Again, agreeing with Areetsa C

Yeah, I like that stuff better anyway, although I'm not saying I don't like Star Wars. I have the Grand Egyptian Navy, finest afloat, in water or space!
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| March 21, 2009, 11:35 pm
Quoting Tim Cliffe
Yeah, I like that stuff better anyway, although I'm not saying I don't like Star Wars. I have the Grand Egyptian Navy, finest afloat, in water or space!



You have no Idea how funny that is to me do you?

Anyway, I do like Star Wars (the ORIGINAL 3), but the new ones are Crummy rip-offs of the original ones. And they are too digital for me. Give me, either a movie that is completely digital and looks great, or give me a crummy set-based series or movie and I'll watch it, as long as the story lines are good, but ep I, II, and III of Star Wars just don't kick me where they should. I'll play games based on ep IV, V, and VI as well as the expanded Universe, but definately not based on 1, 2, and 3.
The Ideal Space action for me would be an even smoother version of Freespace 2, Now THAT is real SPACE. No planets, nothing, just space and blowing stuff up.
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| March 22, 2009, 1:38 am
Star Wars isnt space?
...
Star Wars isnt science fiction?
...
Then what is Star Wars?

But Star Trek....Horrible.Terrible.
Trekies....Hmph
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| March 22, 2009, 1:30 pm
Quoting Martin Steenbeeke


You have no Idea how funny that is to me do you?

Anyway, I do like Star Wars (the ORIGINAL 3), but the new ones are Crummy rip-offs of the original ones. And they are too digital for me. Give me, either a movie that is completely digital and looks great, or give me a crummy set-based series or movie and I'll watch it, as long as the story lines are good, but ep I, II, and III of Star Wars just don't kick me where they should. I'll play games based on ep IV, V, and VI as well as the expanded Universe, but definately not based on 1, 2, and 3.
The Ideal Space action for me would be an even smoother version of Freespace 2, Now THAT is real SPACE. No planets, nothing, just space and blowing stuff up.

Hey, you gotta love the giant groun battles in Episodes I II and III! I mean, Episode III is full of explosions and battle. And who couldn't love the clones? They have the coolest accents ever, they look awesome and they have huge guns. Come on, dude! By the way, did you know Boba Fett got eaten by the Sarlaac two or three more times and is still alive in the expanded universe?
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| March 22, 2009, 1:31 pm
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