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Working Lego Cartridges
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Last night I came up with an interesting idea, you know the l 1/2 cm tubes that Thomas Cooper uses as cartridges? What if you put a spring inside the cartige, compressed against the pin that is stuck in. The hammer would also have a spring on it. When the hammer goes into the cartridge, its spring compresses as well and the hammer pushes the bullet out of the cartridge.

Thus making the guns work even more realistically, and making semiautomatic, non-cocked brick shooters a reality if the idea works. They would also be quite powerful, having two springs and the (admittedly small) force of the hammer.

Notes: 1.
The spring would be kept inside the cartridge, secured by wire etc
2.
If you decide to try out the idea, credits to me.
What do you think?
Permalink
| April 21, 2009, 6:26 pm
Not if the bullet was prevented from moving while the hammer enters, by another mechanism connected to the trigger. It wouldn't have to be that complicated, I already have a concept for that. A similar second mech is used, again by TC. Then all it would be would be finger strength, which as you all build lego, I'm sure you have.
Permalink
| April 21, 2009, 6:44 pm
 Group moderator 
Also like I commented in the other group. How the heck would you get the spring to stay in even with wire? The wire would interfear with the spring and the projectile. So if you can conquer those than you have one awesome idea!
Permalink
| April 21, 2009, 7:40 pm
is there a canister that would be as big as a real bullet casing? if there was, it would be even more realistic and would give you more room for the spring.
Permalink
| April 21, 2009, 8:53 pm
 Group moderator 
Quoting Chris A. is there a canister that would be as big as a real bullet casing? if there was, it would be even more realistic and would give you more room for the spring.
I've drilled a hole in the back of an empty real casing (5.56 x 45mm NATO). Thus it is a real case with a hole where the primer used to be. You can try that. The 5.56 casings hold the Technic pins well and the .30 cal and the 30.06 hold the 1x1 round bricks. DO NOT ATTEMPT TO MODIFY A LIVE ROUND!
Permalink
| April 21, 2009, 9:03 pm
 Group admin 
Quoting PyBrick Replicas
Quoting Chris A. is there a canister that would be as big as a real bullet casing? if there was, it would be even more realistic and would give you more room for the spring. >>>
I've drilled a hole in the back of an empty real casing (5.56 x 45mm NATO). Thus it is a real case with a hole where the primer used to be. You can try that. The 5.56 casings hold the Technic pins well and the .30 cal and the 30.06 hold the 1x1 round bricks. DO NOT ATTEMPT TO MODIFY A LIVE ROUND!


I have millions of 22 caliber shells(empty), do you think that will work?
Permalink
| April 21, 2009, 9:10 pm
 Group moderator 
Quoting Bohdan Tkachenko I have millions of 22 caliber shells(empty), do you think that will work?
They might work. Be careful trying to drill a hole in the rear, though. Since the cartridge is small, it can be tough to hold onto it without crimping the case. It's easier with .22s since you can stick a .22ish DIA rod in to help from crimping. However the 5.56 is more difficult because it's got a bottle-neck design. Anyway, good luck with that.
Permalink
| April 21, 2009, 10:31 pm
Well I did a firepower (not mech) test. If you stick a black pin in and a average spring in the back, then compress the spring with an axle (vitual hammer), it doesn't fire, but if the hammer pushes on the pin, then the pin is released and the spring concentrates all its forces on actually moving the pin resulting in a distance of up to 5 metres. If you use a blue pin held in by (finger atm) the secondary trigger system that was going to be there anyway, it goes 8 metres and counting. The spring stays in the cartridge 60% of the time, so I still need to increase that to 100%, lots of pens are expensive.
Permalink
| April 21, 2009, 10:49 pm
Quoting Arion ...
Last night I came up with an interesting idea, you know the l 1/2 cm tubes that Thomas Cooper uses as cartridges? What if you put a spring inside the cartige, compressed against the pin that is stuck in. The hammer would also have a spring on it. When the hammer goes into the cartridge, its spring compresses as well and the hammer pushes the bullet out of the cartridge.

Isn't that thomas coopers idea? - spring pushes pin out the end, cartridge ejected.
Thus making the guns work even more realistically, and making semiautomatic, non-cocked brick shooters a reality if the idea works. They would also be quite powerful, having two springs and the (admittedly small) force of the hammer.

Notes: 1.
The spring would be kept inside the cartridge, secured by wire etc
2.
If you decide to try out the idea, credits to me.
What do you think?


Permalink
| April 22, 2009, 2:22 am
Nice to see you guys working on this :)
Actually, I have already tried this in several ways. I tried making a cartridge with a spring inside it and a firing pin.
And I tried making one with springs from those Lego shock absorbers, which actually fit around lego pins. That actually worked quite well. You take one black three stud pin, one spring, one black tube and one pin that looks like this --[].

You can wrap the spring around the three stud pin in such a way that it cannot move anymore (there is a small protrusion at 1/3 of the pin that you can put the spring over), and then put the back end of the pin into the tube, which will make the spring compress against the tube.

If you put another pin in the other end of the tube and hit it with some force, the pin and spring at the front will fly out. However, I still found the range they have a little disappointing. I hope this was clear, because I don't have any pictures :S

Long story short, the cartridges worked, but getting them to fire inside a gun without it malfunctioning half the time is something that I still haven't achieved.

PS: the idea itself is quite good, if someone can get it to work properly, respect!

Permalink
| April 22, 2009, 8:12 am
Quoting Marder II
Also like I commented in the other group. How the heck would you get the spring to stay in even with wire? The wire would interfear with the spring and the projectile. So if you can conquer those than you have one awesome idea!

You wouldnt need wire, just a touch with a soldering iron, and the spring isnt going anywhere....(plastic/metal fused)
Permalink
| April 25, 2009, 2:05 pm
 Group moderator 
Quoting bin dover
You wouldnt need wire, just a touch with a soldering iron, and the spring isnt going anywhere....(plastic/metal fused)


No you couldn't do that. If you fused the plastic and the spring the spring wouldn't work anymore. No matter where you fused it, it would still not work. That is the only problem with the idea.... how would you get the spring to stay inside?

Permalink
| April 25, 2009, 4:49 pm
My suggestion would be to fix the spring to the projectile, I tried this and it seemed to work pretty well. This also makes cartridge ejection easier, since there is no spring sticking out of the tube after firing. However, the downside on this is reduced range (heavier projectile&less aerodynamic).
Permalink
| April 25, 2009, 4:56 pm
 Group moderator 
Quoting bin dover You wouldnt need wire, just a touch with a soldering iron, and the spring isnt going anywhere.... plastic/metal fused)
Quoting Marder II No you couldn't do that. If you fused the plastic and the spring the spring wouldn't work anymore. No matter where you fused it, it would still not work. That is the only problem with the idea.... how would you get the spring to stay inside?
Yes, you can do that; just solder the end, not the entire spring: |/////| Solder either the left or the right "|" parts to the plastic, not any of the middle "/" parts. The spring is then adhered to the plastic, but retains it's ability to compress and expand.
Permalink
| April 25, 2009, 5:55 pm
Success!

Well, sort of.
You attach a cartridge and one of the small grey circles that axles go through together. I used sticky tape, which worked.

You then stick the spring in.
Then you stick in a pin with a lightsaber/rod through it, making sure the spring doesn't get squashed against the side, only compressed.
Finally push the lightsaber down until it comes out the end with the circle.
Tape up the front of the projectile securly(sometimes this isn't required).

All it takes to fire is a slight push on the lightsaber sticking out the back, and out the projectile goes!

In tests the spring has stayed in, but the projectile only goes 1m. Perhaps a result of my weak spring.
Permalink
| April 25, 2009, 9:05 pm
 Group moderator 
Quoting Arion ... ... attach a cartridge ...
Sorry for sounding dumb, but what kind of cartridge do you mean? One made of Lego materials (what pieces?) or the real brass (what caliber and any modifications to it?). That would really help me visualize the breakthrough.
Quoting Arion ... You then stick the spring in.
Which end? The one with the gray bushing piece taped onto one end or the other?
Permalink
| April 26, 2009, 3:26 am
The cartridges I was talking about earlier in the thread, the lego tube pieces that Thomas Cooper uses.

You put the spring in the open side, so that when you push the pin in, it compresses the spring against the grey piece on the end. The trick is that the grey piece allows the lightsaber out the back, but not the spring.

Something that helps is if you get a lance or something to push the lightsaber in, and then go in itself and add a little extra force.

But if the cartridge is created properly that isn't required.

Now, to get super strong springs!
Permalink
| April 26, 2009, 6:06 am
what is this "grey peice" you are talking about?
Permalink
| April 26, 2009, 8:48 am
 Group moderator 
Quoting Chris A.
what is this "grey peice" you are talking about?


I think hes talking about a 1/2 gray bushing. But I got an idea too. What instead of you using a techinic tube you used a regular Lego 1 stud tube. Then you wouldn't maybe need that taped bushing.

Permalink
| April 26, 2009, 12:29 pm
Would you have room for a decent spring though? I don't think so, maybe if you used the smaller on one side grey pins.
Permalink
| April 26, 2009, 11:53 pm
Quoting Bohdan Tkachenko

I have millions of 22 caliber shells(empty), do you think that will work?



i also have loads of 12 gauge shotgun shells will they fit??
Permalink
| May 3, 2009, 3:54 am
I guess if you make a gun the right size.
Permalink
| May 4, 2009, 7:11 am
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