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Not sure if this will be interesting, but here goes:

This contest was extremely fun for a variety of reasons. My favorite part was simply being part of a team of people I really enjoy working with. They're a great group of people, and it was so much fun sharing our creations with one another, and helping each other out from time to time.

It was also helpful to me, because the contest challenged me to build some things I would normally never build, like a comic for the 5 Man Team category, or a miniscale building for LEGO Architecture.

Lastly, the I felt the judges did a very good job overall with grading the entries. It was always exciting to wake up and look to see what my team's entries scored.
-----

Nothing really funny in there, but just my thoughts. :-)
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| March 15, 2010, 1:56 pm
Quoting Keith Goldman
There is a bit of a bias against MOCpages over there, so they may reject the story entirely.

Both interesting and sad. Why is this, if I might ask? Personally, I find this site far more user friendly then Flikr.~H
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| March 15, 2010, 2:17 pm
First: This contest was great fun!

I learned some new things about building, and discovered a total disability to build mechs. But I also noticed that I'm quite good if my buildings aren't minifig scale. It was really inspiring to see what other people have built and I think I can build now better than before this contest.

This contest brought me some new interesting themes, like Post-Apoc. I never thought about building in some of this categories, because I have not build them before, but then I had some good ideas and tried my best.

I found some great builders, learned better about part usage and built a lot of stuff which I never thought of before. What I loved too was the team work thing, a new fresh aspect when you normally have done that only on your own.

My conclusion: I hope that I can participate next year and look forward to the challenge.
But now I have to tidy up my room, it is full of asorted legos!
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| March 15, 2010, 2:19 pm
Quoting Hans Dendauw
Both interesting and sad. Why is this, if I might ask? Personally, I find this site far more user friendly then Flikr.~H


On flickr there is a hate group against me which is strange because I'm not even on flickr... but I don't really care anyways...

And for you Mr. Goldman:
"I have found the Moc Athalon to push my abilities farther than I previously imagined. I made some creations which I would never have built without using this competition and the other entries as inspiration. I found this to be a good-clean game and a brick-load of fun too!"
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| March 15, 2010, 2:28 pm
Oh, one more thing.

Negative point:

It'll take me until next year's MOCathlon to take apart and sort all of my entries. ;-)
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| March 15, 2010, 2:46 pm
The Moc Athalon is probably the most successful contest ever. I don't remember seeing another contest with more than 450 entries.

Another aspect is the conversation. You get to know new people and work with them. People you wouldn't have met otherwise.

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| March 15, 2010, 2:55 pm
The best part about the Moc-Athalon was getting to know and work with builders you otherwise would have never known, I can only say that I was blessed to get on a team with such great teammates!

All in all, I appreciate the challenges that the Moc-Athalon gave, forcing me to build Mocs that I would have never dreamed of doing, but it also gave me a challenge that I most certainly will not enjoy doing, cleaning my room. Which I had already done. Twice.
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| March 15, 2010, 2:59 pm
Quoting Philip Stark
Oh, one more thing.

Negative point:

It'll take me until next year's MOCathlon to take apart and sort all of my entries. ;-)

Yeah, I agree. My LEGO room was just sorted and cleaned and everything. Now I have to start almost all over again.

Nothing more to say, great contest with a great number of participants. If it's done again next year, I'm sure there will be a lot more of them. And I hope I'll be one of them. ;)
Thanks for hosting and judging everything!

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| March 15, 2010, 3:00 pm
Quoting Matn .

Yeah, I agree. My LEGO room was just sorted and cleaned and everything. Now I have to start almost all over again.



I'm lucky that my Lego room has never been sorted. And I have no problem with it :D
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| March 15, 2010, 3:13 pm
This contest was awesome for me. I love competition in all aspects of life, so this was an excellent challenge. I was opened up to a bunch of categories I had never heard of before, and forced to build in themes I had never thought of before. The judges did an excellent job, the teamwork aspect was ingenious, and I loved the whole thing.
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| March 15, 2010, 5:06 pm
The MocAthalon is a great idea overall. I wish I'd signed up earlier and been a part of a more organized team, one with all it's members participating. But I also got to build some cool things with awesome categories to choose from. Wish I'd had time to build more.

One thing about MOCpages vs. Flickr that I like is that MOCpages allows you to post all the photos relating to one MOC on one page rather than having to flip through a photostream. You can have sets organized on Flickr, but not everyone is going to check out every photo in the set. MOCpages puts those photos in one place nicely. Plus it's only Lego. What could be better than that?
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| March 15, 2010, 5:59 pm
Besides the fact that my wife was about to kick me and the LEGO out, everything went pretty smoothly.

The major drawback to working with YFOLs on the team is that they don't get to decide what to do with their free time for the most part. My team suffered a bit due to homework, and parents telling them it was time to put the LEGO away. LOL

A month is a very long chunk of dedicated time to ask of anyone. Even while all of this was going on I still had 4 kids to raise and 4 video games to review. Hopefully next year I will have a lull in games to review so I can wrap up the final 9 in round 2! :P The kids however, are here to stay I suppose. ;)
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| March 15, 2010, 6:26 pm
A large significance in this event is that it shed light on who is involved in the Lego building community. Sure our skills may have improved (I'm sure mine have) but our scope of people who devote part of their life to building Lego has also improved and expanded. I know I couldn't think of any other way to connect and correspond with other builders of different calibers. I loved every bit of the experience, and would certainly participate in the next? one.
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| March 15, 2010, 7:03 pm
Truthfully, I was conned into by that nefarious Phipson and his cronies.

The team aspect was appealing (too bad that didn't quite work out for me) and, of course, the categories that pushed people outside of their comfort zones. Plus, only something like the MOCathalon is going to have Gio ready for the cameras in a remake of The Perils of Pauline.

The ability to track your team's score was great for tossing some smack. Being able to get quick feedback from the judges was something other contests should consider instead making contestants wait three or four weeks in some cases. This month of mayhem was partially enjoyable -- even if one of the categories was "Will it float?" and not "Does it look fantastic and float?"

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| March 15, 2010, 7:08 pm
Quoting Dennis Price
Truthfully, I was conned into by that nefarious Phipson and his cronies.

The team aspect was appealing (too bad that didn't quite work out for me) and, of course, the categories that pushed people outside of their comfort zones. Plus, only something like the MOCathalon is going to have Gio ready for the cameras in a remake of The Perils of Pauline.

The ability to track your team's score was great for tossing some smack. Being able to get quick feedback from the judges was something other contests should consider instead making contestants wait three or four weeks in some cases. This month of mayhem was partially enjoyable -- even if one of the categories was "Will it float?" and not "Does it look fantastic and float?"


HAHAHAHAHAHAHA...
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| March 15, 2010, 7:25 pm
I loved how I got to work with builders that I never thought I would get to know. The most important part of the contest, personally, is the criticism I received. Most of the comments on my MOCs before the contest was lots of "Dude that's awesome" comments (or lots of "Dude that s*cks" on flickr). Rarely have I ever gotten a comment actually criticizing my work, but those are the kinds of comments that I truly appreciate. I also learned a thing or two about the presentation of my MOCs. Thank you very much judges.
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| March 15, 2010, 7:26 pm
 Group admin 
I think that, as a Judge, the hardest thing was to rate down awesome entries because of rules/theme breach.
I saw so much great stuff in this contest that (even considering the huge work involved) I'm almost sorry it's over.

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| March 15, 2010, 7:29 pm
Q: You want it done quick or you want it done right?

2010 Mocathalon: Both.
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| March 15, 2010, 10:34 pm
The Moc Athalon was very beneficial to those who participated in many different ways. It gave builders the chance to explore different build subjects that they might have been uncomfortable or unsure about building. To say the least, the results were phenomenal; all of the stellar work present in most of the entrees really impressed me. The Moc Athalon also allowed builders to effectively communicate in a team environment and come up with some very cool team projects. Most importantly, it allowed builders to receive advice from some of the more prestigious builders on MOCpages, a.k.a the judges. It was a blast! -Dylan
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| March 15, 2010, 10:38 pm
The MOCatahlon was yet another great invention by the AFOL community, and again it was great fun for all involved. Even rivaling the MOC Olympics, this event was a great experience for me. I learned some valuable techniques, and learned many different ways to make MOCs. It was a good run, and I'll be happy to participate in this next year.
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| March 15, 2010, 11:00 pm
 Group admin 
Let me see. Phipson asks me to play in the games already knowing what my response is going to be: "Sorry, you know I can't, I am too busy with work, kids, renovations, and getting ready for Brickworld." He already knows what my next statement is going to be: "However, if you want some sucker to be a judge, then I can help out with that."

In hindsight - I was played. he knew I would volunteer and run these games for him so he could bow out and play in the darn thing himself. Which entailed about 10-times the amount of work had I just played in the darn thing. Sigh - no good deed goes unpunished. Half of me wants to throttle Chris, the other half wants to give him a nod in respect for being clever enough to out-think me. Either way, this coming June I am going to bend him over the sink and not even spit on it first.

The game was rushed, the rules were flawed, and some of the categories poorly thought out (some just a joke). Over 450 mocs looked at and rated. Hours of stress/drama over various issues. I had a judge that wanted to quit in the first week, a key player that same week that thought he should quit. I lost sleep over having to DQ a moc posted by one of the best builders on the site. And I haven't build anything in a month!

Yet, through some miracle (read the blood, sweat, and tears of Dave, Keith, Yuri, and myself) the games began, and for the most part they ran smoothly. Players came together to form teams. Teams organized to build in categories, and the mocs started to roll out. A couple at first, with the first dang moc actually earning a DQ and the suspension for the player - let me tell you, I thought that was an evil omen, then more and more every day. Weekends were the bane of my existence as every non-homeschooled kid posted like crazy, as did most of the AFOLs. I cam across some amazing builds and amazing builders though, which made the pain worthwhile; but the most important thing was people were building like crazy, which has always been Chris' goal - to get people building. His second goal has been to help bring some respect to MOCpages, which it has lost over the years.

So here I sit, a few more mocs to score, and I ask myself: "Would I do this again?" Sadly, yes I would. I am glad I was part of this fiasco, and look forward to it next year. Funny, never realized I had a masochistic streak. Next year though, it will be planned far better, and the loopholes will be closed. But this is the first year, and one could hardly have expected it to run any different than it did. I mean really, look at whose I idea it was, and look who he left running the show. We should all be thankful we actually made it through this game without crashing MOCpages; although, it seemed close every Monday.

Chris, Dave, Keith, and Yuri - you can all pound sand. I don't want to talk to any of you for at least 48-hours.

The rest of you pansy players - thanks! I had a blast.

Regards,

Lee Jones
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| March 16, 2010, 12:20 am
Quoting Keith Goldman
I didn't mean for this to devolve into a MOCPages vs. Flickr exchange, I just wanted to harvest interesting quotes for the article.

Not my intention to bash Flickr, just curious, as it's not the first time I've heard of a bias. By user friendly, I simply meant I seem to be able to monitor the activities of others easier, but I admit that I'm inexperienced when it comes to Flickr. Honestly, I'm relatively new to the whole LEGO Community and it's MOC Pages that introduced it to me, so I admittedly come from a naive place in these matters. The slow speeds are definitely a downer, I'm just a slave to routine, I guess. Again, I was just curious and thank you for your response.~H
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| March 16, 2010, 2:36 am
Quoting Lee Jones
Weekends were the bane of my existence as every non-homeschooled kid posted like crazy, as did most of the AFOLs.


Interesting point you bring up here. Being a homeschooled teen myself, I did find it frustrating that my team mates for the most part didn't/couldn't get anything built or posted for most of the week. I had time to work on my stuff all day and photograph it whenever. For a kid who is at school all day, then doing homework and has to build and then find a way to get good lighting to photograph a MOC, this could be huge challenge. There are a lot of steps that go into getting a MOC posted, not just the building aspect.

And some kids might not have the support of parents who understand or even like Lego to begin with. I have the luck of having a parent who is in to them as much as I am, who actually WANTS me to be building non stop if I'm inspired. In fact, my mom put a lot of pressure on me to get builds done well and on time for this. I'm more used to making things on my own schedule. So I learned something too.

What I'm trying to say is that maybe next time the contest should still be open to all, but suggest that all, kids and adults, think about how much time they can actually devote to building and not to just sign up to "see how it goes." They should be warned that by signing up on a team they are committed to putting in enough hours each week to support their team. And maybe begin removing team members after the first weekend if they haven't posted at least one MOC.

I think our team felt a little helpless in this area. We weren't sure what was to be done when team members weren't posting and weren't responding to conversation threads. Thanks for listening.

I for one am grateful Lee that you hung in there and did such an awesome job judging.

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| March 16, 2010, 2:56 am
Quoting Imagine Rigney

Interesting point you bring up here. Being a homeschooled teen myself, I did find it frustrating that my team mates for the most part didn't/couldn't get anything built or posted for most of the week.


You're lucky I wasn't on your team. I was physically incapacitated from building too much most of the competition. That, and I have schoolwork to contend with. Worst combination ever.

And I forgot to thank the judges earlier, must have been a hard task. So yea, thanks to them.
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| March 16, 2010, 3:15 am
I went mad. Absolutely stark raving. I am fortunate that I have no family, friends or life to bother me and distract me from what is really important. Unfortunately, because I had no family, friends or life to bother me during this contest I got a little too lost in it for my own good. The set alternate category is the one that put me over the edge. After a week of rebuilding and rephotographing it I just about chucked it all in and sold my lego and closed my account...
However, this has been a month of my life I would not change for anything. I learned so much! I've only been building for a few months and I am overwhelmed by how much confidence I gained during this contest, that now I feel I can do just about anything! To be forced to step outside my comfort zone and build things I would never have thought of building and succeeding where I was sure I would fail has just opened my eyes to a whole new world where I finally feel at ease and with a familly who finally speak my language!
To the judges, WOW! What a mighty task! Thanks so much for the constructive comments and continual support. You are machines! Oh... and I didn't actually go that mad... I was already mad at the beginning... if you don't believe me just look at my siggy.
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| March 16, 2010, 4:24 am
Well I'm new here, and I have been trying to make some friends and earn some respect on this site. I feel that this contest let me show people what I was really made of and try to show my best. I do have a couple of complaints though, I believed the The team part of this really ruined it for me. Out Of our team only three of us posted, one guy posted once and then Left, and me and the two other guys had to push on, but even they have their limitations. They only put out a few creations. Don't get me wrong, they are great builders and they are some of my really good friends, but I fell the team could have used a little more work. Also the whole time one of our Teammates couldn't even post his 12+ Mocs made for the contest. I can tell you I lost more than a few hours hours of sleep over this. Not the kind with a girl if you know what I mean ;-) It helped me better my building (If not all in the places I wanted to but,still) I didn't expect to win, and we didn't, but I'm proud to have been part of this awesome contest, and when next years comes I hope I can be there as well. The judges spent a tremendous amount of time helping run this, and judging the MOCs (Many of them leaving the judges wanting to pull there hair out) But still, they did a wonderful job, and my hat goes off to them. Congratulations everyone Because its not the winning that counts, its the friends and the times you had together. Thank you.
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| March 16, 2010, 8:19 am
I admit to skimming over many of the comments (still in panic mode with work and rushing throug everything unfortunately), but if no one has mentioned it yet, I'd like to bring up the issue of cooperative building...

One of the things that Chris had discussed with me before beginning all of this madness was his notion for creating a contest that not only brought builders together in a collaborative atmosphere, but brought them together in a way that would help to eliminate age barriers. He specifically set up this contest where YFOLS, TFOLS, and AFOLS could work together. I think this was one of his most ingenious ideas yet, and it reflects that rare capacity LEGO itself has, in bringing together kids of EVERY age.

Great concept, Phippy...let's see ya top this one!

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| March 16, 2010, 8:35 am
Paragraphing and spacing between paragraphs saves lives!

Yeah, the whole thing has been a great "communidy strengthening" event, which is good.

The team element was kinda unprecedented and really interesting to be a part of. That was one of my main motivations throughout the games, doing my best for my teammates. I'm an incredibly selfless person.
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| March 16, 2010, 8:41 am
Quoting Keith Goldman
I just wanted to harvest interesting quotes for the article.


I would like to offer that if Brothers Brick doesn't accept your article, that a LEGO blog that I help run (which gets more than 400 views a day FYI) will accept your article if you want.

Thanks,
~Flare
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| March 16, 2010, 10:37 am
A MOCathlon story on the Brothers Brick? Don't believe it! El Hombre de Oro promised me a TBB article on MOCtag too, way back when...

The MOCathlon was a good concept, but rushed. It seems that I am ALL THE TIME accusing that son of a Phip of rushing -- his builds, his contest/community project ideas -- and here I am doing it yet again. So Chris, please, for me -- slow down.

I speak from the community involvement vantage point of a guy who has run one contest, and started MOCtag. In both cases I tried my best to overthink them before unleashing them on the public. I wanted to make as sure as I possibly could that if anyone had a problem it was because they didn't/wouldn't/couldn't read the rules -- that the fault was with them, not the setup of the activity. In that I believe I was successful both times.

The MOCathlon needed more of this pre-unveiling refinement. Too many aspects were unclear or confusing. To take just one example that is a pet peeve of mine, category #5, Cafe Corner Building. It says, "Give us something that would fit in on Main Street USA in the style of the Café Corner sets." To me, the very title of the category, and the phrase "the style of the Cafe Corner sets" equals something built in the Cafe Corner standard -- a universal, modular building standard wherein the building's footprint front to back is sixteen studs (at least at the sides of the baseplate), with eight studs for a sidewalk out front, and eight for an alley in back, so that it will line up with others for a display. When I saw entries not built in this standard not being disqualified, I could only assume that the judges themselves did not know what the Cafe Corner standard is, and/or that the category description was poorly written. Was the intent to have true "Cafe Corner" buildings, or just a Town building? Stuff like this can and should be worked out before the game officially starts.

As if I haven't been enough of a Captain Buzzkill already, I am going to say that after watching these games from the bleachers, the one memory that's going to stick with me is not any of the cool MOCs that came out of it. And there were plenty, which is supposed to be the important thing. It is, unfortunately, a nagging feeling that Chris, as inventor of the game, received special treatment as a competitor.

I would shrug it off if there were not actual prizes involved. And luckily I think that "ze Germans" make it a moot point anyway by being the likely winners. Still, the perception of impropriety is there. I've made jokes about Chris trying to rig the contest in his favor. Do I really believe it? No. But...

When Keith gave one of Phippy's entries a score of one, Yuri exploded like he had his whole life savings bet on Team Acronym to win. Afterwards, It looked to me (just my perception, mind you, it might be completely unwarranted) as if Keith's scores of Chris's entries were a bit more generous than they might otherwise have been, based on his reasoning for giving the other entry a one. Was he bought off? Blackmailed? Or, what is most likely, just keeping his head down and taking the path of least resistance until this farce was over? How am I supposed to believe in the integrity of the games after this? It also seemed (again, maybe I'm way off base) that Lee's and Dave's scores of Phipson's entries were on the overly generous side, based on scores I saw them handing out to others.

Lee and Dave have met Chris and hung out with him in person. They are friends. I myself have met the good doctor, and I believe in his personal integrity -- I refuse to entertain the notion that he's purposely skewing any of his votes. I don't know Dave, but for that matter, I don't believe he is either. I do submit, however, that there may be an unconscious bias. And I'm not just picking on Chris here -- I think Dennis Price might have gotten some benefit from being "in the club" too. Granted, I didn't look at every single entry. Maybe my sampling pool is too small to draw these conclusions from. But fair or not, the perception is there. Maybe I'm alone in this. Or maybe I'm the only one willing to speak up on this.

In my humble opinion, if a judge is a friend of a competitor, the judge needs to consciously be HARDER on the friend. It's not enough to just say everything is on the level and expect people to trust you, you've got to eliminate even the suggestion of impropriety. When Keith ran his first contest, he had a "crony rule" to this effect. I thought it was such a wise move I adopted that sentiment for my own Vig/orama contest. I think it needs to be part of every contest. If Yuri was up in arms over Keith giving Chris a low score, he's lucky I was not a judge. I would have given him a heart attack.

What I'm saying is, in regards to entries I know are by one of the judge's buddies, I feel like instead of remarking to myself, "Hmm, this guy's giving this a point or two more than it probably deserves," if anything I should be thinking, "Ouch! That's probably worth three, and he gave it a two?" Judging is of course a subjective thing, and I'll be the first to admit that my opinion as to what MOC "deserves" which score is just that -- an opinion -- and that it won't necessarily jibe with anyone else's.

If the MOCathlon is run in the future I would suggest that the circle of judges be widened and include some (reliable) TFOLs in addition to AFOLs so that cranks like me find it more difficult to level charges of cronyism.

Again, the most important thing is I saw some cool MOCs. Hopefully the people had fun participating. Sadly, this one leaves a bit of a sour taste in my mouth.
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| March 16, 2010, 5:06 pm
 Group admin 
Quoting Shannon Young

The MOCathlon needed more of this pre-unveiling refinement.


I agree completely - they were rushed. However, nothing like a trial by fire to see how well something works. Next year the games will be better for this year's fiasco.


Quoting Shannon Young Was the intent to have true "Cafe Corner" buildings, or just a Town building? Stuff like this can and should be worked out before the game officially starts.


Again - I agree completely. The categories were ambiguous at best, downright confusing at worse. Now that I am involved in this dog's breakfast - they will be better prepared for next year.


Quoting Shannon Young ...a nagging feeling that Chris, as inventor of the game, received special treatment as a competitor.


Oh heck, I thought we were more subtle than that.

Quoting Shannon Young It also seemed (again, maybe I'm way off base) that Lee's and Dave's scores of Phipson's entries were on the overly generous side, based on scores I saw them handing out to others.


It is possible. I do like Chris, and I have hung out with him; I have also hung out with and like Mark, Heather, Alex, Stacy & Dave, Dennis, Matija, and You as well (and certainly a good number of others). I really had to think about Chris' mocs to be sure. As I did Dennis' and Mark's (you didn't include him the list?). Similarly, I had to make a conscious effort to not underrate mocs by people that have/continue to annoy me. Can I say I was completely successful in this endeavor - I am sure I cannot. Dang this being human.


Quoting Shannon Young I myself have met the good doctor, and I believe in his personal integrity -- I refuse to entertain the notion that he's purposely skewing any of his votes.

I do submit, however, that there may be an unconscious bias.


Thanks, and you could be correct. Hard to say for sure. This might have also affected me with some of my voting on the players in the likely winning team. Once I was impressed with their consistent stunning work - was I more prone to see the better side of their mocs? And if so, then I likely scored them higher. Possible.


Quoting Shannon Young
In my humble opinion, if a judge is a friend of a competitor, the judge needs to consciously be HARDER on the friend.


You know I appreciate and respect your opinions. Thanks for the advice.


Quoting Shannon Young
If the MOCathlon is run in the future I would suggest that the circle of judges be widened and include some (reliable) TFOLs in addition to AFOLs so that cranks like me find it more difficult to level charges of cronyism.


Not 'if', it will. And - agreed, and attempted. Sadly any reliable TFOL was in the games. But again, as you pointed out, with better planning and more time...

Quoting Shannon Young Sadly, this one leaves a bit of a sour taste in my mouth.

Sorry man, I'll make sure I pull out next time. I just got carried away in the heat of the moment. I'll also make an effort to stay away from the celery and go for the watermelon.

Lots of flaws my friend, and you know I am serious when I say I respect your opinion. Even when our opinions differ. But thank you for pointing out the (many) flaws and offering both your opinion and advice - they are appreciated.

Regards,

Lee
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| March 16, 2010, 6:39 pm
One thing I would suggest considering for next time would be to limit the total entries per team at the number of categories, ie: no round 2.

This would support quality over quantity, but still would give it a feel of building a lot. Maybe up the categories to 35 if desired.

Because to me, MOCing should be trying to get make the best thing you can, not just fill up categories to get to another wave.

Just my 2 cents. Even in this so called "flawed" contest, it was a heck of a lot of fun. :-)
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| March 16, 2010, 6:59 pm
Quoting Lee Jones
I really had to think about Chris' mocs to be sure. As I did Dennis' and Mark's (you didn't include him the list?).

Mark was not participating at the same level as Chris and Dennis. From what I recall, he had one entry disqualified, and another that looked (to me) like an obvious no-brainer high scoring entry. Hard to allege favoritism based on those two examples.

Quoting Lee Jones
Similarly, I had to make a conscious effort to not underrate mocs by people that have/continue to annoy me. Can I say I was completely successful in this endeavor - I am sure I cannot. Dang this being human.

I'm not as familiar with your enemies list as I am on who your friends are. If I really wanted to dig deep into this thing, would I find certain judges givng consistently higher/lower scores to certain builders? We are, after all, only human. A larger, more diverse panel of judges might help to soften the impact of this.

Quoting Lee Jones
This might have also affected me with some of my voting on the players in the likely winning team. Once I was impressed with their consistent stunning work - was I more prone to see the better side of their mocs? And if so, then I likely scored them higher. Possible.

It's a good point. Did I, once getting the idea in my head that favoritism might be at play, become more liable to seeing what I expected to see?

Quoting Lee Jones
Sadly any reliable TFOL was in the games.

True enough. It probably won't be easy finding some who'd rather judge than build.


I guess my biggest problem was seeing Yuri's hissy fit and the aftermath of that, my belief in the integrity of the games was gone. And it's hard to unring that bell. It's sad that that bit of petty drama will be the enduring image I take away from these games.

Anyway, thanks for the gentlemanly response, Lee (except for the celery/watermelon thing -- sicko). I expected nothing less from you, but thanks all the same.
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| March 16, 2010, 7:35 pm
Two words: Crazy critique.
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| March 16, 2010, 8:04 pm
Really, I've got to say I have mixed feelings about this whole contest. The problem with the whole "locked groups" is that you really couldn't see the strategies worked for other teams, and the whole team thing didn't work out for me. I kind of regret signing the thread, because I got thrown into a random team, and we didn't have much strategy in our group.

As for the categories, I must say, I'm thinking that the "Will it Float" is just a huge overcompensation to make people start spouting science formulas, while the whole time all Lego floats. I only built one version of my entry, and it worked right away. In fact, I'm actually wondering if after this someone's going to make a Lego buoyancy project.....

The list of categories was really quite vague. I admit I was expecting more commonly used categories; actual themes. I did end up with some trouble because I really kind of misconceived one of the themes. I noticed that where a few individuals excelled, most MOCs were new to the players and a bit haphazard.

Wrapping up, I can't wait for the MOColympics.
Permalink
| March 16, 2010, 8:13 pm
I really enjoyed this competition because of the group element. Instead of only relying on ones self, you had to rely on team mates holding up their end of the bargain, which is why some teams ended with very few points. It was the team element in my opinion that made this contest stand out and deserve the time of so many great mocers.
Permalink
| March 17, 2010, 5:07 pm
Quoting Ryan T.
Really, I've got to say I have mixed feelings about this whole contest. The problem with the whole "locked groups" is that you really couldn't see the strategies worked for other teams, and the whole team thing didn't work out for me. I kind of regret signing the thread, because I got thrown into a random team, and we didn't have much strategy in our group.

As for the categories, I must say, I'm thinking that the "Will it Float" is just a huge overcompensation to make people start spouting science formulas, while the whole time all Lego floats. I only built one version of my entry, and it worked right away. In fact, I'm actually wondering if after this someone's going to make a Lego buoyancy project.....

The list of categories was really quite vague. I admit I was expecting more commonly used categories; actual themes. I did end up with some trouble because I really kind of misconceived one of the themes. I noticed that where a few individuals excelled, most MOCs were new to the players and a bit haphazard.

Wrapping up, I can't wait for the MOColympics.

Yea, we had a random team, but we signed up in the last week of sign-up, so what did you expect?

Our team really didn't have a strategy. All I did was pick my categories, and then I didn't post very many comments after that. One of our teammates only posted one creation because of computer problems. Others posted all of them. However, the hodge-podge of players in our team let me meet many new builders, which is always a good thing.

Permalink
| March 17, 2010, 5:17 pm
Quoting Nick Shelton
Yea, we had a random team, but we signed up in the last week of sign-up, so what did you expect?

Our team really didn't have a strategy. All I did was pick my categories, and then I didn't post very many comments after that. One of our teammates only posted one creation because of computer problems. Others posted all of them. However, the hodge-podge of players in our team let me meet many new builders, which is always a good thing.

Well, I actually signed up on the first day of the group, but was awfully picky with joining teams, and ending up without one. And he didn't have computer problems, it was a busy schedule along with homework. And then we had one who didn't post ANYTHING.... And yes, I feel quite the same way about it. We didn't give each other advice or anything, just announced what categories we were going to do and occasionally checked in on the group. Not even all of the creations were posted in the group, I noticed by the score. I even checked other groups to see the bar with members, creations, and conversation, and some of them peaked over 500 comments.
Permalink
| March 17, 2010, 6:33 pm
The team concept was key. For those who embraced it, their teams thrived. Using my team (Squid Suc/kers) as an example, we helped each other out. We were initially assigned categories, but ended trading as crunch time approached. Also, the speedier builders went ahead and picked categories from the slower ones. When scores were less than desirable, we tried to motivate and encourage each other to keep building regardless of the outcome. When inspiration was in a rut, we offered each other ideas and a good number of them were actually implemented. We communicated a lot even if it was off-topic (896 conversations to date). That made it even more fun. We talked about categories from previous contests, kept score of every MOC we posted, strategized to kingdom come (OK, not that bad), and continually keep tabs of what was done and needed to get done without killing each other. The overall outcome, I must say, was excellent! Gooooo Team!
Permalink
| March 17, 2010, 8:34 pm
Quoting Shannon Young
I think Dennis Price might have gotten some benefit from being "in the club" too.


Sir, while I may agree with many of your criticisms and add that I (among others) voiced some of those same concerns before and during the games, I resent the implication that somehow my entries were overrated because I am friends with some of the judges and Chris Phipson.

My final entry is indeed extremely weak (it's called "a joke" and shouldn't be scored because it wasn't put into the Golden Relievers pool). Even if the judges had all given it a 5, the one man action team would have had no impact on the final result. I'm assuming the judges got the joke and gave it some points, probably out of pity, so I will concede the point there.

The WGAS Hydro Ferry wasn't the prettiest thing I've ever built, but it floated and I took it on simply to try and keep my team alive. Alas, that didn't happen, but I'm not throwing sour grapes at my teammates because life gets in the way when we least expect it.

To imply that I gained some sort of benefit on the three MOCs I agreed to do for my team (landscape, set alternate, and vehicle) is an insult not to the judges but to me. It is this sort of malarkey that will cause me to pause and reconsider entering any sort of contest or competition, on MOCpages or elsewhere, in the future. I may not be the best or "most talented" builder, yet I put a great deal of thought, creativity and effort into the models I actually signed up to build. I did the best I could do, and I'm proud of my performance in the game.

I respect your opinion and your right to express it more than you could ever know, and I admire your knowledge and skill when it comes to this hobby; however, I earned those points. I do not appreciate having my efforts tarnished -- however faintly -- by accusations that I somehow had even the slightest advantage because of friends I have made.

Permalink
| March 17, 2010, 9:00 pm
Quoting Dennis Price
I resent the implication that somehow my entries were overrated because I am friends with some of the judges and Chris Phipson.

I don't blame you, and I apologize. The only reason I dragged your name through the mud was because I needed another example. I'd already opened the can of worms, and didn't want it to appear as if I simply had some axe to grind against Chris personally. I had recently looked at some of your entries, and with the smug complacency of armchair quarterbacks everywhere, thought to myself, "Hm, they rated that higher than I would have."

So yours was the first name that sprang to mind. If I'd thought a little longer, I would have come up with others. If I'd thought even longer, I would have realized putting any name down in that regard was both unnecessary and unfair. With even more thought, I never would have written anything in this thread at all. I now feel I've added nothing to the conversation except more acrimony and drama.

Quoting Dennis Price
It is this sort of malarkey that will cause me to pause and reconsider entering any sort of contest or competition, on MOCpages or elsewhere, in the future.

If I've taken any of the joy out of the hobby for you, I do feel badly about that. We're all supposed to be here to have fun. That said, the above statement seems rather extreme, a bit of hyperbole to shame me perhaps? If you think an implication that you can not do well in a contest unless you're cozy with the judges will dog you to the end of your days, I think you give my words more weight than they really carry. If you were simply participating for the fun of building some new stuff, I do not see why you should pay much attention to what some cranky bystander thinks. I'm just a voice in the peanut gallery, and one that seems solidly in the minority at that. However, I realize that just because I generally do not care what people think of me, it does not mean others will have the same capacity to shrug things off as easily. A slight has been perceived. I did not mean to be personally insulting, but that does not lessen the burn.

Quoting Dennis Price
I do not appreciate having my efforts tarnished -- however faintly -- by accusations that I somehow had even the slightest advantage because of friends I have made.

Of course you don't. Nor would I in your position. I did not expect it would be a popular post as I clicked the button to send it through. Judges have to expect and be prepared for inevitable complaints about their job performance. The creator of a game, in this case Chris, has to be prepared to answer for the way it is run as well. You, as a simple competitor in the games, with no responsibility for its setup and proceedings at all, do not deserve to be blindsided by slander. I wrote and posted rashly, and again I am sorry for that.

Of course now looking back at it, I see how my post can't help but be taken as another tired old "Chris can't build" joke with the added bonus of, "oh and by the way, neither can Dennis." I was not being intentionally mean-spirited. (Just casually and accidentally mean-spirited I suppose, which may be worse.) The fact is I do hold adult builders on this site to a higher standard, especially once they've been here awhile. I'm generally more critical of builds by AFOLs, and more forgiving of younger builders. In my mind, it was more about how I mentally score the MOCs I look at, and how that process differs in others -- in this case the specific judges of the contest. On screen via my own poorly-chosen words, it comes off as insulting to you and Chris personally, maybe arrogant, maybe some description even less savory. It was never my intention to offend. Nonetheless I have caused offense, and I regret it. I hope you can accept that and not let my ill-advised screed tarnish your enjoyment of future competitions or the online community in general.



I wish I'd never opened my big yap in the first place, but I did.

As unpopular as it necessarily will be, I am going to stand by my contention that there might have been an unconscious bias toward at least some of the AFOLs (at the possible expense of the younger builders). The allegation was made sometime already during the course of the contest, and I have to say I tended to agree. At the very least I don't think we can dismiss the possibility out of hand.

I do believe that a competition in which certain judges are known to be buddies of certain competitors bears especially close scrutiny.

I do think that Chris made a mistake in competing in a game he designed, with at least half the judging corps being known cronies. Even if it is not a genuine conflict of interest, it feels shady. At the very least it seems a bad PR move.



But I do sincerely apologize to Dennis Price for throwing him under the bus, when he had done nothing to deserve such a thing.
Permalink
| March 18, 2010, 2:58 am
Quoting Keith Goldman
you irritated me nearly as much with your refusal to save MOCtag from the mob. I know you're Mr. laissez faire where creativity is concerned and I applaud that, but MOCtag went into the tank because of your absentee landlord policy and never recovered. Which was maybe more of a shame because MOCtag was someting altogether different from any contest or group project I'd seen.

Well, you always knew my plan all along was to leave it to the mercies of the mob and see what happened. You're right, I never could reconcile my hands-off, laissez-faire philosophy with the firm guidance it quickly became clear that MOCtag in its original form would need. I may still resurrect it someday if I can figure out a better formula.

Quoting Keith Goldman
As for a bad taste, maybe you feel that way because you didn't participate in the contest and share that sort of trial by fire kind of bond?

I suppose it's possible. I might have felt even more jaded, for all I know. It's a moot point anyway. For all my armchair quarterbacking, judging looked like a tough, grueling gig, and I'd have turned it down had anyone asked me to do it. As for playing... I like just building whatever occurs to me, whenever I want, too much. The idea of "having to" build something according to someone else's parameters has no appeal at all for me. But a lot of people seem to love it, and I enjoy seeing the work that comes out of it. If I'm a spectator at any competition, I want it to run smoothly and be fair. When you watch a game, you want to be talking about the players' feats afterwards, not the referees or the rulebook.

Quoting Keith Goldman
I think the quality of models and the quality of experience most people had outweigh the bad stuff.

I do feel like I'm raining on everyone's parade a bit here.

Quoting Keith Goldman
Thanks for the rant though...

Yeah, sure, no problem. Like most rants, I already regret making it. As I said in reply to Dennis, I feel as if I've added nothing to the discourse except bad feeling.
Permalink
| March 18, 2010, 3:19 am
 Group admin 
Quoting Shannon Young ...Like most rants, I already regret making it. As I said in reply to Dennis, I feel as if I've added nothing to the discourse except bad feeling.


I still love ya buddy. And I for one appreciate most of the comments and observations.

As I said to Chris - you are the exact person I would want to have this discussion with. People young (intentional) and old respect you. If someone was going to bring up these points you are the best one to do so.

As for being a minority - maybe. Alternately, you may be the only one that has the stones to say anything about these concerns?

At any rate, watch out in the future Mr. Young as I may ask you to put your money where your mouth is. If I am going to be running these games next year, then I might just ask your opinion on a few things as I work up the rules and categories...

Now hop on your horse ranger, and get typing.

Lee

Permalink
| March 18, 2010, 5:38 am
Quoting Shannon Young
Like most rants, I already regret making it. As I said in reply to Dennis, I feel as if I've added nothing to the discourse except bad feeling.


Not from my standpoint. I appreciate the honesty you bring to the table, and it's good to get a quality builder and respected MOCpages member's input. Rant or no, you're speaking your mind, and that's what I personally like to hear.
Permalink
| March 18, 2010, 8:37 am
Quoting Shannon Young

I wish I'd never opened my big yap in the first place, but I did.


While some specific remarks might have been better thought out or worded, the overall statement you are making is one that needed to be made, simply for the fact that you feel that way. As an important member of the community, your input is as vital as anyone's, especially because you were removed from it. When one has a vested interest, one's opinion can be biased, be them a contestant OR judge. Having an outsider give honest critique of what they saw can only help to improve future incarnations. As a contestant, I certainly had my own strong feelings about how things were playing out at times, but couldn't help feeling like I had a percieved bias. I am happy that there is someone like you, who paid close attention from the sidelines and felt strongly enough about fairness and good competition, to say something. Healthy debate is essential to properly develop a fair system and THIS is healthy debate. I, for one, thank you for caring enough to involve yourself in the debate.~H
Permalink
| March 18, 2010, 10:39 am
I am simply an average builder on these pages, but here is my three cents worth. The upside of this contest was the teamwork aspect and getting folks to build outside their comfort zone. That was it for me. The downside was the vast ambiguity of the category descriptions, the rather unscientific judging, and reading some of the player’s complaints. The judges, unfortunately, had no set guidelines, they each judged differently, which can be good and bad. There also seemed to be inconsistency in the way the MOCs were scored. I do not think there was any bias involved; I think the fact that the judges had to take time to score the 400 or so creations was simply overwhelming. Now, I do not like to criticize without offering possible solutions, so here goes. Take more time to clearly define the categories and what is allowed and what is not. Fewer categories, such as 15 to 20 would have been more than enough. If you go with multiple judges, break up the categories between them, for example: If the contest had 4 judges, and 20 categories, then 2 judges would judge 10 of the categories and 2 judges the other ten. Also, come up with a set of criteria to base the judging on and stick to it. Now, as I said, I am simply an average builder who enjoys a bit of humor in his creations, but my real life work is with the United States Government. In that capacity, I am called upon to organize and conduct trainings, review and critique employee performance and present convoluted government programs in an easy to understand way. So I do have experience with this sort of issue. Thanks for taking the time to read all this, and thank you again to the judges, your job was difficult, to say the least.
Permalink
| March 18, 2010, 10:42 am
 Group admin 
What really pains me the most is that no matter how much I try to do for this community, someone always feels the need to come in and trounce all over it.

I'm not talking about the flaws in the rules or how the game ran. When you get this many people together for something like this, things are bound to pop up. Of course the game had flaws, but those will be fixed for next time and it's good for us to get feedback on those issues.

It's when people start to insult me and my friends personally and question our intent and integrity however, that I become hurt the most.

~ Chris.
Permalink
| March 18, 2010, 8:35 pm
I absolutely loved this competition. The team-based "warfare" was something that MOCpages has never seen successfully done before. I'm so glad that I got to be one of the pioneers of it.
Permalink
| March 18, 2010, 9:59 pm
Quoting Ian McDonald
I'm so glad that I got to be one of the pioneers of it.


I agree with Ian, it have something of pioneer spirit! I think with this new form of contest, Chris and the judges break through another frontier on MOCpages! Thank you for inventing, developing and accomplish this!
I really liked and enjoyed it, because in our case the team consists of people from America and Europe - the Moc Athalon not only opens new aspects for the communitiy, but also breaking the frontier of countries and languages!
It was simply great!
Permalink
| March 19, 2010, 8:01 am
Quoting Chris Phipson
What really pains me the most is that no matter how much I try to do for this community, someone always feels the need to come in and trounce all over it.

I'm not talking about the flaws in the rules or how the game ran. When you get this many people together for something like this, things are bound to pop up. Of course the game had flaws, but those will be fixed for next time and it's good for us to get feedback on those issues.

It's when people start to insult me and my friends personally and question our intent and integrity however, that I become hurt the most.

~ Chris.

I trust you do not think I was doing that. I do not feel you directed that at me as I did not insult you or the judges, but I wanted to be sure. Your idea was great, the contest ran quite well considering it is the first time. Overall, the contest was quite good, some adjustment is all that is needed.
Permalink
| March 19, 2010, 10:54 am
Bonesy, I think it's pretty clear who that was aimed at.

Quoting Chris Phipson
What really pains me the most is that no matter how much I try to do for this community, someone always feels the need to come in and trounce all over it.

I take two things from that remark, both of which I strongly disagree with.

The first is that just because you enjoy being MOCpages' version of a cub scout pack leader and running a lot of group activities, you somehow feel you should be exempt from criticism.

The second is that I am just some troll who decided to dump on the contest for no good reason.

My concerns are legitimate. A man might spend an hour alone in a cheap motel room with a woman who is not his wife, and have a perfectly innocent and blameless reason for doing so. But it still looks bad, and his motives will naturally be questioned.

Your reputation as a stand-up guy does earn you considerable leeway -- I never believed you were intentionally rigging the contest, I only made jokes about it to point out to you how it could look. But by putting yourself in that situation in the first place, you open yourself up to doubt. In a case of instant karma, a regrettably public judging controversy soon centered on you.

For the most part, you get a pass because you are Chris Phipson. The flip side is, because you are Chris Phipson, you have a higher profile around here, and are held to a higher standard than Joe Schmoe running some contest nobody cares about or is paying any attention to.

Quoting Chris Phipson
It's when people start to insult me and my friends personally and question our intent and integrity however, that I become hurt the most.

I have apologized to Dennis because I did wrong him and I do feel quite bad about it. I apologize to you more for poor phrasing of my thoughts than anything, which I acknowledge can be perceived in an insulting manner. I can not emphasize too strongly, however, that you put yourself in a position where your integrity could be called into question. If you refuse to see that, you're just not living on the same planet that I am. My only aim was to get you to think extra deeply on whether or how to compete in a contest of your own devise in the future.

I bear no ill will, and will be more than happy to buy you, Dennis, or anyone else who thinks I'm an ogre, a beer or whatever your poison is if we meet at a convention sometime in the future. I'm not a bad guy, just an opinionated one.

Permalink
| March 19, 2010, 4:39 pm
 Group admin 
Quoting Shannon Young
I bear no ill will, and will be more than happy to buy you, Dennis, or anyone else who thinks I'm an ogre, a beer or whatever your poison is if we meet at a convention sometime in the future. I'm not a bad guy, just an opinionated one.


I never thought you were. Many of your observations do make sense. There are a few people who thought I shouldn’t have played in the game. And those friends and I that differ on our opinion have agreed to disagree and move on as this could go back and forth for a very long time with no resolution. Should I have played in the game? Maybe, maybe not. Did I want to because it looked like a lot of fun? Oh heck yeah!

To agree with you on another point, no, I shouldn’t be and aren’t exempt from criticism. I do feel however that my lower building skill level compared to the greats such as Kelso, Jassim, Goldman and yourself combined with my reputation here as a community leader, does raise considerably the level of criticism that do I receive. I joined MOCpages and the Lego community as a whole, to have fun, build Lego, meet new friends and encourage others to be the best that they could be. I guess it’s true that no good deed goes unpunished.

With all that being said, we could go back and forth about all these issues with no end in sight. As I’d like to consider you not only a friend, but also someone whom I greatly admire in this community, let us agree to disagree and move forward. Rest assured that I am one of those people that is able to read between the lines and sift through the parts that seemed insulting and was able to absorb the message behind it. I also hold no ill towards you. But there’s one thing I will say. No, I won’t accept you buying me a beer if we ever meet up, because I’m going to buy you one. Now get your (bleep) out to Brickworld so we can make that happen.

~Chris.
Permalink
| March 19, 2010, 6:05 pm
If you're gonna smack the talk, you've got to make the MOC.
Permalink
| March 19, 2010, 6:58 pm
 Group admin 
Hahaha,here's a thought... I think some of the builders here will not easily look down on Bionicle builders anymore, including some AFOLS whose entries were particularly lousy :D
Permalink
| March 21, 2010, 7:18 am
Quoting Yuri Fassio
Hahaha,here's a thought... I think some of the builders here will not easily look down on Bionicle builders anymore, including some AFOLS whose entries were particularly lousy :D


Indeed! But I think there is a big difference between some BioSystem entries in the contest and some simple, let me say "Clone on a plate" Bionicles here on Mocpages...
Permalink
| March 21, 2010, 7:31 am
I thoroughly enjoyed the contest. Except for the fact that half the people on my team didn't participate. I also enjoy waking up to find Emails from MocPages about the scores the judges had left me. It felt like Christmas day. Masked
Permalink
| March 21, 2010, 8:49 am
Quoting §hažam ! (Flare)

I would like to offer that if Brothers Brick doesn't accept your article, that a LEGO blog that I help run (which gets more than 400 views a day FYI) will accept your article if you want.

Thanks,
~Flare

Hey! What a good idea!

Masked
Permalink
| March 21, 2010, 12:35 pm
Quoting Masked Builder
Hey! What a good idea!

Masked


I thought you'd be fine with it. :P
Permalink
| March 21, 2010, 1:09 pm
Quoting Keith Goldman

Thanks for the offer Flare, that is very generous of you. Kudos on a fine blog as well, one to add to my favorites.

Fortunately Andrew B over at Bro's Brick gave me the green light for a very abridged version of the article. On the downside, about half the content and quotes I planned on using didn't make it. On the upside, it should be posted and that is good news for us all. I'm not sure when it will be posted, but hopefully soon.

Thanks again to everyone (including Shannon) who replied to this thread. Even if you don't make it to the Bro's, your thoughts were extremely helpful when writing the article.


-Keith


I'm plenty glad I could help, and it would be great if your article could make it on Brothers Brick. Thanks!
Permalink
| March 23, 2010, 7:21 am
This is an great article about the Moc Athalon Keith! Resembles in a perfect way the games itself!
I'm very sad about the obviously "non-importance" for TBB, which have certainly many readers and visitors from MOCpages...
But what shall we do?!

Kevin
Permalink
| March 27, 2010, 2:24 pm
I'll tell you why your article isn't being published. Too warm and fuzzy; too much gladhanding. Where's the conflict? The backstage drama? The scandal? In a world that considers the petty bickering of self-serving reality show stars high entertainment, your writeup is pure Pollyanna.

The editors at TBB don't want feel-good stories of community togetherness, they crave hot-button issues. Divisiveness! Controversy! Venomous screeds that hit you like a gutpunch! Weeping and gnashing of teeth! As your pal Mr. Rutherford likes to say, Attack!


The House of Smack has been demolished. In its place a sweet, sappy Mr. Goldman in his cardigan sweater comes in everyday and changes his shoes, crooning,

"It's a beautiful day in this neighborhood,
A beautiful day for a neighbor.
Would you be mine?
Could you be mine?...

It's a neighborly day in this beauty wood,
A neighborly day for a beauty.
Would you be mine?
Could you be mine?...

I've always wanted to have a neighbor just like you.
I've always wanted to live in a neighborhood with you.

So, let's make the most of this beautiful day.
Since we're together we might as well say:
Would you be mine?
Could you be mine?
Won't you be my neighbor?
Won't you please,
Won't you please?
Please won't you be my neighbor?"
Permalink
| March 27, 2010, 6:44 pm
Thanks you for taking the time to write such a great article... though I am sorry that after your effort, that TBB isn't blogging it...
Permalink
| March 27, 2010, 6:54 pm
I missed this discussion until now and was never aware of this great idea. Please get in contact with me and I'll see to it that the article is published with all the important content included.
Permalink
| March 27, 2010, 6:55 pm
Quoting Shannon Young
I'll tell you why your article isn't being published. Too warm and fuzzy; too much gladhanding. Where's the conflict? The backstage drama? The scandal? In a world that considers the petty bickering of self-serving reality show stars high entertainment, your writeup is pure Pollyanna.

Forget smack, this is how you run over someone with a Mac Truck! No mercy ... *explodes*

Permalink
| March 27, 2010, 7:06 pm
 Group admin 
Quoting Keith Goldman
Despite getting the green light for the article at Bro’s Brick, and submitting the article, nothing has been posted. Since the MOCathalon loses relevancy to a news blog with each passing day, I would not be surprised if it never gets posted. I thought some of you might like to read it anyway, so hear you go. Enjoy...


Keith, thank you again so much for writing this article! Myself and all the participants can't thank you enough.

And as the gracious Mr. Z just left his comment, thanks go to him as well for getting this published!

And again, thank you ALL for making this such a huge success!

~Chris.
Permalink
| March 27, 2010, 7:10 pm
Way to make a liar out of me, Nannan!

I will take full credit for shaming TBB into action on this one.
Permalink
| March 27, 2010, 7:38 pm
I guess I spoke too late; Keith suggested to me in email that it's too late for the post. Next time for sure.
Permalink
| March 28, 2010, 12:59 am
Quoting Shannon Young


That was unkind.
Permalink
| March 28, 2010, 6:22 pm
 Group admin 
Quoting Shannon Young (extracted from post)

I speak from the community involvement vantage point of a guy who has run one contest, and started MOCtag.

I tried my best...

I wanted to make as sure...

I believe I was successful both times...

I didn't look at every single entry...

I'm alone in this...

I'm the only one...

I adopted that sentiment...

I think...

I would...

I saw...

Well, I understand your points...

You are better

You are wiser

You would have done better

You would have solved all our problems

You would have shaken the very foundations of MOCpages... TOMORROW THE WORLD!!!


Quoting Shannon Young
Sadly, this one leaves a bit of a sour taste in my mouth.

Don't worry, it's not your fault, it's all that air... let some out of your head and you'll feel better :)
Permalink
| March 28, 2010, 8:40 pm
It's sad to see Mr. Goldman leave. Does anybody have an idea why?
Permalink
| March 29, 2010, 5:23 pm
Quoting Master Shifu Leo J
It's sad to see Mr. Goldman leave. Does anybody have an idea why?

No idea, but his voice and creations will be missed.
Permalink
| March 29, 2010, 5:31 pm
 Group admin 
Quoting Mister Bones
No idea, but his voice and creations will be missed.

I agree with the 2nd part of your statement :)
Permalink
| March 29, 2010, 5:54 pm
Yuri, if all you can muster are lame insults two weeks after the fact, I'll take that to mean you are unable to intelligently and reasonably debate any of the points I brought up. Which is fine; I have no desire to exhume this dead horse and subject it to further beating.

Yes, and HOW DARE Keith or I or anyone else have the courage to voice an opinion that may be unpopular! Worse yet, one that the "honorable" Yuri Fassio disagrees with!

Your colossal hypocrisy astounds and sickens me.

You may have the last word if you want it, I was leaving this group anyway.
Permalink
| March 29, 2010, 8:19 pm
Quoting Master Shifu Leo J
It's sad to see Mr. Goldman leave. Does anybody have an idea why?


I'm scared. I mean, the dude was page 123. He's like waaaay old school MOCpages. Guess he finally had enough.
Permalink
| March 30, 2010, 3:17 am
 Group admin 
Quoting Yuri Fassio
I agree with the 2nd part of your statement :)

Put it back in your pants, if you had to wait until Mr. Goldman left before making such a statement, then grow some berries and email him what you just said.

Man I hate when guys act like beaches. Stacy, Heather, Leda, and Juli have more stones.

Keith is a respected builder across every AFOL site you can go to, which can't be said for the rest of us pansies.

Get some builds under your belt so you can back up such a statement, then I might respect your words. Furthermore, try standing next time you take a leak.

As for Keith - I will miss him. For both his builds and his comments.

Lee.


Permalink
| March 30, 2010, 4:22 am
Quoting Mister Bones
No idea, but his voice and creations will be missed.


Agreed here...
Permalink
| March 30, 2010, 11:08 am
 Group admin 
Quoting Shannon Young
Yuri, if all you can muster are lame insults two weeks after the fact, I'll take that to mean you are unable to intelligently and reasonably debate any of the points I brought up. Which is fine; I have no desire to exhume this dead horse and subject it to further beating.

Yes, and HOW DARE Keith or I or anyone else have the courage to voice an opinion that may be unpopular! Worse yet, one that the "honorable" Yuri Fassio disagrees with!

Your colossal hypocrisy astounds and sickens me.

You may have the last word if you want it, I was leaving this group anyway.

Hahaha! Imust have hit a sensible spot there!
And, about Keith, that was intended as a joke, seen the bit of scrape we had during the games (hence the smiley).
Oh, btw I think that a flow of "I" statements hardly qualifies as an "intelligent and reasonable debate".
You see, you stated all that already during the games and, as usual, it's not what you say, but HOW you say it.
Take it lightly and grow some sense of humour :)
Permalink
| March 30, 2010, 3:43 pm
 Group admin 
Quoting Lee Jones
Put it back in your pants, if you had to wait until Mr. Goldman left before making such a statement, then grow some berries and email him what you just said.



Oh, man, I didn't expect this from you... you were here during the MOCathlon and you know perfectly well that I had no problem callig him out when I thought something was wrong.
Too bad my reply to ShannY is blocked (apparently, I can't quote what he said to me lol!) or that matter would habe been clear already.

Permalink
| March 30, 2010, 3:53 pm
Ah...the smell and sight of political moc mud slinging never gets old. I will miss Keith, he had good creations but if I want to see them then I can just venture into his flickr account, its no big deal, really. He probably just got tired of posting here. Can't really get mad about that, and the judges squabbling indirectly over this matter is a bit odd to me, but I think I'll kindly butt-out of that subject, for fear of igniting new flames in my direction. ;)
Permalink
| March 30, 2010, 6:55 pm
Quoting Ian McDonald
Ah...the smell and sight of political moc mud slinging never gets old. I will miss Keith, he had good creations but if I want to see them then I can just venture into his flickr account, its no big deal, really. He probably just got tired of posting here. Can't really get mad about that, and the judges squabbling indirectly over this matter is a bit odd to me, but I think I'll kindly butt-out of that subject, for fear of igniting new flames in my direction. ;)


Smart choice... It's out of our league ;) Anyhow, yes, the one thing I'll miss most about Keith are his rather honest and straight-forward criticisms in his Ask-Keith Group...
Permalink
| March 30, 2010, 7:22 pm
Keith wanted to leave one last tribute to MOCpages:

http://www.brothers-brick.com/2010/03/31/community-innovation-mocathalon/
Permalink
| March 31, 2010, 8:29 pm
Awww... that's nice, but no "jump"?
Permalink
| March 31, 2010, 8:34 pm
Quoting Nannan Z.
Keith wanted to leave one last tribute to MOCpages:

http://www.brothers-brick.com/2010/03/31/community-innovation-mocathalon/

Do ya happen to know why he left? He might have said something, but...
Permalink
| March 31, 2010, 8:42 pm
No I don't.
Permalink
| March 31, 2010, 10:25 pm
That's really weird...I would think he would say something and leave his account open for awhile instead of just leaving.
Permalink
| March 31, 2010, 10:34 pm
Thanks Keith. Thanks Nannan.
Permalink
| March 31, 2010, 10:40 pm
Someone left? Did I miss something? I think I heard Goldman... nah, couldn't be... I might cry :(
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| March 31, 2010, 10:41 pm
oh dear, I just read the conversation. I really can't believe it! I always thought that deleting a whole account with all those MOCs and comments was quite an immature way to end your MOCpages career. Honestly, you can leave without deleting. Leave those glorious MOCs for us to view and learn from. If he meant to get away from the kiddie drama, he can just be inactive. There is no one that makes you comment here, you don't have to. I really don't think a full grown AFOL would do that, so I'm going to give him the benefit of the doubt and call it a keyboard slip, accidental delete.
Permalink
| March 31, 2010, 10:46 pm
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